Bugs/Issues & Hotfixes for SR V3

[Ardanis]

That's correct, marking spells with detectable stats is better be reserved for DS only. Particularily so because it's exclusively AI's business how to navigate among various spells, and modern DS utilizes more intelligent code to account for changes in spells.

[phordicus]

that is absolutely bizarre. no other spell lost its DS component (afaik!). methinks i should reinstall from a clean BG2.

[Ardanis]

It's indeed strange, because due to a bug in the last DS version it would patch in a new effect even if there's no matching opcode present. If you get no DS on PfNM, it means the spell wasn't loaded by DS's code at all.

Do you have other mods affecting PfNM installed after SCS/RR/whatever_with_DS? It's possible to kill the DSed spell this way.

[Guest LD]

As suggested by Demi, here are some things I have encountered in my last playthrough with SR/SCS (I already mentioned all this in SCS forums, sorry for the double posts):

 

The Trap the Soul ability of Gaxx the Demilich removes NPCs from your party, as opposed to Imprisonment, which is a bit annoying. DavidW already said he may look into it.

 

A Death Knight and a Demon Knight fought against each other in a locked room in Sendai's Enclave. Again DavidW said he would examine the issue.

 

Perhaps concerning more directly SR than SCS, two more very minor things:

 

As I said in an other thread, Fallen Devas summoned by ennemy spellcaster grant XP.

 

I cleared Bodhi's lair in Chapter 3 with my F/M using the new Phantom Blade. The damage was a bit inconsistent, it did around 8-10 damage against all vampires, and 18-20 against Grimwarders. However I don't think vampires have any resistance agains Magical Damage (or slashing or piercing for that matters), am I wrong? Moreover, the miscast ability looks pretty cool, however it was a bit useless against the spellcasting vampiress Tanova, since I'm fairly sure it did not go through Stoneskin (she did not cast any PfMW): I only saw a message about her passing a saving throw when I successfully removed all of her Stoneskins, and then the fight was almost over anyway. Hence, I did not bother casting Phantom Blade again after the end of Chapter 3. Of course, I'm fully aware that even in SR, not all spells are designed to be equally powerful or useful.

 

Finally, I posted a message in SCS boards a few weeks ago about the trouble I had hitting enemy spellcasters with SW, RRR and the like. Ardanis suggested aiming my spells a bit away from the target. I want to report that this solution works flawlessly! The only times I missed my target after that was when he/she moved before I finished casting.

 

Let me add that I'm very impressed by the overall polish of SR and SCS.

[Demivrgvs]

Demilich's Trap the Soul & Howl

The Trap the Soul ability of Gaxx the Demilich removes NPCs from your party, as opposed to Imprisonment, which is a bit annoying. DavidW already said he may look into it.

This is because SCS overwrites SR's changes. SR already handles both Trap the Soul (as per SCS, which is more or less as per PnP) and Demilich Howl. In theory it would be enough for SCS to not touch those innates when SR is installed.

 

 

Death Knights & Demon Knights

A Death Knight and a Demon Knight fought against each other in a locked room in Sendai's Enclave. Again DavidW said he would examine the issue.

I'll look into it too...I may assign Death Knight a neutral evil alignment to avoid the issue.

 

 

Phantom Blade

I cleared Bodhi's lair in Chapter 3 with my F/M using the new Phantom Blade. The damage was a bit inconsistent, it did around 8-10 damage against all vampires, and 18-20 against Grimwarders. However I don't think vampires have any resistance agains Magical Damage (or slashing or piercing for that matters), am I wrong? Moreover, the miscast ability looks pretty cool, however it was a bit useless against the spellcasting vampiress Tanova, since I'm fairly sure it did not go through Stoneskin (she did not cast any PfMW): I only saw a message about her passing a saving throw when I successfully removed all of her Stoneskins, and then the fight was almost over anyway. Hence, I did not bother casting Phantom Blade again after the end of Chapter 3. Of course, I'm fully aware that even in SR, not all spells are designed to be equally powerful or useful.

Regarding the damage output I've already found a possible cause of problems, I'll test it asap.

 

Regarding miscast effect not bypassing Stoneskin instead I don't know what to say or do. Generally any on-hit effect like that bypasses it, if it doesn't it's probably hardcoded and I cannot do nothing about it.

 

 

Antimagic attacks vs Improved Invisibility

Finally, I posted a message in SCS boards a few weeks ago about the trouble I had hitting enemy spellcasters with SW, RRR and the like. Ardanis suggested aiming my spells a bit away from the target. I want to report that this solution works flawlessly! The only times I missed my target after that was when he/she moved before I finished casting.

This was a known issue as discussed here. The latest hotfixes should have "fixed" it, though a true fix seems impossible.

 

 

Let me add that I'm very impressed by the overall polish of SR and SCS.

Yep, I'm glad that only few and minor errors seem to be reported in a while.

[spanyam]

Just a quick question. If I were to download the latest release of SRv3, are the hotfixes included in the download package, or will I still have to apply them on top of this?

[Shaitan]

You'd still need to apply them on top of the main SR download.

[phordicus]

SR is removing Fixpack's elven sleep/charm resistances from an inscrutable selection of spells. the spells in SR's backup folder have the appropriate EFFs. the new ones do not. or is there some coding voodoo i'm ignorant of that does the same thing?

 

[edit1] inconsistent so far. pr405 & pr512 aren't correct yet others like wi104 are. nothing installed after SR touched these spells.

 

[edit 2] further research shows these files to be... ill-changed:

 

pr102 - nada

pr405 - nada

pr512 - nada

wi116 - completely different EFFs than FP's

wi213 - same as ^

wi506 - nada

wi711 - nada

 

[edit 3] oh, delightful irony. here i was assuming SR operated with the smooth and seamless integration available with weidu when, in fact, it simply bludgeons spell files straight into the override. i wonder how the other pre-SR-install files turned out. IR is more subtle, yes?

[Demivrgvs]

Elven charm and sleep resistances

SR is removing Fixpack's elven sleep/charm resistances from an inscrutable selection of spells. the spells in SR's backup folder have the appropriate EFFs. the new ones do not. or is there some coding voodoo i'm ignorant of that does the same thing?

 

[edit1] inconsistent so far. pr405 & pr512 aren't correct yet others like wi104 are. nothing installed after SR touched these spells.

 

[edit 2] further research shows these files to be... ill-changed:

 

pr102 - nada

pr405 - nada

pr512 - nada

wi116 - completely different EFFs than FP's

wi213 - same as ^

wi506 - nada

wi711 - nada

I do handle it in a slightly different way but I do. Keep in mind that elves are resistant to charm and sleep, not to mental effects in general.

* spwi104 and spwi213 are Charm and Dire Charm - elves are 90% resistant, half/elves are 30% resistant

* sppr405 and spwi506 are Mental Domination and Domination - elves are not resistant to domination afaik (are they with fixpack?)

* sppr 102 and 512 are Command and Greater Commond - they are not sleep effects

* spwi711 is Sphere of Chaos - elves should be resistant to only one of its effects, which is quite difficult to implement

 

[edit 3] oh, delightful irony. here i was assuming SR operated with the smooth and seamless integration available with weidu when, in fact, it simply bludgeons spell files straight into the override. i wonder how the other pre-SR-install files turned out. IR is more subtle, yes?

Main components override, all other components don't.

[DavidW]

[edit 3] oh, delightful irony. here i was assuming SR operated with the smooth and seamless integration available with weidu when, in fact, it simply bludgeons spell files straight into the override. i wonder how the other pre-SR-install files turned out. IR is more subtle, yes?

 

"Bludgeoning files straight into the override" is actually the correct way to code in this case. The idea of SR is to replace each given spell, in its entirety, with a new one. Since there aren't any features of spells that are supposed to be left alone by SR, patching isn't sensible in this case.

 

(When I do this kind of thing, I tend to ship a vanilla copy of the resource and edit it by weidu code at install time, but that's just a matter of taste, and in any case has the same result from an end-user's perspective.)

[phordicus]

plus it's such a big bastard of an overhaul, i'd do it the same way -- but mentioning it somewhere in the docs would be nice since FP has been de rigeur for ages. changes always need to be stated regardless of how intuitive they seem to someone.

 

what's weird is that if SR is overriding these spells yet the rest of the list from FP remain untouched and still have their own EFFs.

FP's

~beguile.spl~  ~override~ // beguiling gaze (demogorgon)
		  ~demochm.spl~  ~override~ // demonic charm (demogorgon)
		  ~spcl311.spl~  ~override~ // ranger charm animal
		  ~spcl641.spl~  ~override~ // charm person or animal (unused?)
		  ~spcl751a.spl~ ~override~ // used as bard song for HELL_PRIDE_EVIL
		  ~spin108.spl~  ~override~ // charm animal (elminster version)
		  ~spin119.spl~  ~override~ // charm person (elminster version)
		  ~spin553.spl~  ~override~ // nalmissra innate charm
		  ~spin558.spl~  ~override~ // erinyes charm
		  ~spin775.spl~  ~override~ // psionic mind blast
		  ~spin802.spl~  ~override~ // mind cripple
		  ~spin883.spl~  ~override~ // vampire domination
		  ~spin910.spl~  ~override~ // psionic domination
		  ~spin937.spl~  ~override~ // mephit color spray
		  ~spin940.spl~  ~override~ // mephit stinking cloud
		  ~spin966.spl~  ~override~ // troll sleep
		  ~spin975.spl~  ~override~ // mind flayer domination
		  ~spin980.spl~  ~override~ // beholder charm person
		  ~spin985.spl~  ~override~ // beholder domination
		  ~sppr102.spl~  ~override~ // command
		  ~sppr204.spl~  ~override~ // charm person or mammal
		  ~sppr405.spl~  ~override~ // mental domination
		  ~sppr512.spl~  ~override~ // greater command
		  ~sppr982.spl~  ~override~ // dire charm (trap)
		  ~spwi004.spl~  ~override~ // stinking cloud (trap)
		  ~spwi104.spl~  ~override~ // charm person
		  ~spwi105.spl~  ~override~ // color spray
		  ~spwi116.spl~  ~override~ // sleep
		  ~spwi213.spl~  ~override~ // stinking cloud
		  ~spwi316.spl~  ~override~ // dire charm
		  ~spwi411.spl~  ~override~ // emotion
		  ~spwi506.spl~  ~override~ // domination
		  ~spwi711.spl~  ~override~ // sphere of chaos
		  ~spwi929.spl~  ~override~ // succubus charm male
		  ~spwi930.spl~  ~override~ // succubus charm female
		  ~spwi943.spl~  ~override~ // sirine dire charm
		  ~spwm179.spl~  ~override~ // wild surge charm
		  ~spwm187.spl~  ~override~ // wild surge sleep
		  ~urgekill.spl~ ~override~ // ravager charm

 

obviously wholly changed spells like Color Spray, Emotion, and Sphere of Chaos aren't an issue but i do have concerns about taking "charm" and "sleep" so literally. if the end effect is unconsciousness or loss of will, the terminology used shouldn't matter so heavily. it's not like elves are actually resistant to sleep -- at least from my 1st & 2nd ed background -- it's that they don't sleep regardless of vehicle. maybe some magazine article or Nth iteration of handbook retconned the tolkien-esque concept that i missed.

[Demivrgvs]

plus it's such a big bastard of an overhaul, i'd do it the same way -- but mentioning it somewhere in the docs would be nice since FP has been de rigeur for ages. changes always need to be stated regardless of how intuitive they seem to someone.

If I had to write down every single small detail of SR into a readme I'd spend a couple of weeks writing such readme. Players care for the end result, thus there was no reason to document this "change" unless it caused any compatibility issue (which it doesn't).

 

what's weird is that if SR is overriding these spells yet the rest of the list from FP remain untouched and still have their own EFFs.

Thus? Both work, I simply use less EFF files than FP to reach the same goal, and I do it because I've standardized how all spells are handled (long story).

 

The only thing we may discuss is "consistency", because I dind't know FP was making elves resistant to things like vampire's dominating gaze. Afaik they shouldn't, but I'll look into it. Other than this I don't get what's there to complain about.

 

obviously wholly changed spells like Color Spray, Emotion, and Sphere of Chaos aren't an issue but i do have concerns about taking "charm" and "sleep" so literally. if the end effect is unconsciousness or loss of will, the terminology used shouldn't matter so heavily. it's not like elves are actually resistant to sleep -- at least from my 1st & 2nd ed background -- it's that they don't sleep regardless of vehicle.

It matters instead, a lot. Sleep opcode is also used by things like Wing buffet or fighter's Smite HLA, do you think elves should be resistant to them because they end up "sleeping" for a round? Unconsciousness and sleep are not the same thing despite them sharing the same opcode due to hardcoded limitations. Elves may not sleep, but they can be knocked out, they are resistant to low lvl charm effects ("loss of will" is a quite incorrect term, "persuasion" or "affascination" would be better), but they are not immune to mental effects in general.

[phordicus]

If I had to write down every single small detail of SR into a readme I'd spend a couple of weeks writing such readme. Players care for the end result, thus there was no reason to document this "change" unless it caused any compatibility issue (which it doesn't).

your interpretation of sleep/charm is hardly small. the standard gameplay has been established for years, and considering how prevalent those effects are, re-interpretations should be noted. why would i assume a mod that started out with such bang for its very unobtrusive buck would silently alter a major combat mechanic, and inconsistently at that?

 

Thus? Both work, I simply use less EFF files than FP to reach the same goal, and I do it because I've standardized how all spells are handled (long story).

i was forced to do research and it turned up those inconsistencies. do with it what you will.

 

Other than this I don't get what's there to complain about.

are you the same guy that wrote this?

 

I know that not everyone will like all of the changes I've made - and some of them are controversial - but this can be discussed and I'm open to any suggestions.

my style is blunt to avoid misinterpretation, but i'm not feeling that invitation to discuss. i already implement my own suggestions so this part of it is just as optional for me.

 

It matters instead, a lot. Sleep opcode is also used by things like Wing buffet or fighter's Smite HLA, do you think elves should be resistant to them because they end up "sleeping" for a round? Unconsciousness and sleep are not the same thing despite them sharing the same opcode due to hardcoded limitations. Elves may not sleep, but they can be knocked out, they are resistant to low lvl charm effects ("loss of will" is a quite incorrect term, "persuasion" or "affascination" would be better), but they are not immune to mental effects in general.

i've lost my hunger to argue. must be getting old.

 

anyway, since you do these things by hand -- and speaking of those mental effects in general -- think you can implement the saving throw bonus for high WIS vs mind spells and the immunity to illusions via high INT? unless that was streamlined out between editions at some point.

[Demivrgvs]

If I had to write down every single small detail of SR into a readme I'd spend a couple of weeks writing such readme. Players care for the end result, thus there was no reason to document this "change" unless it caused any compatibility issue (which it doesn't).

your interpretation of sleep/charm is hardly small. the standard gameplay has been established for years, and considering how prevalent those effects are, re-interpretations should be noted. why would i assume a mod that started out with such bang for its very unobtrusive buck would silently alter a major combat mechanic, and inconsistently at that?

I don't get where "my interpretion" is supposed to be so different than what players always had (simply because I strictly follow PnP on this matter). The only case where we might differ is Command spells in case players like you consider it a sleep spell (which is not in PnP).

 

Thus? Both work, I simply use less EFF files than FP to reach the same goal, and I do it because I've standardized how all spells are handled (long story).

i was forced to do research and it turned up those inconsistencies. do with it what you will.

May I ask you why you were forced to do that?

 

If by inconsistencies you mean elves not being almost immune to Domination I said I was going to look into it asap, I'm not at home and I don't remember every line of all AD&D books.

 

Elves not being immune to Command isn't an inconsistency, it's actually very consistent with its concept (I don't have any better link than this), but if most players agree with you I can accept to revert it even if I don't agree.

 

Other than this I don't get what's there to complain about.

are you the same guy that wrote this?

I know that not everyone will like all of the changes I've made - and some of them are controversial - but this can be discussed and I'm open to any suggestions.

my style is blunt to avoid misinterpretation, but i'm not feeling that invitation to discuss.

Sorry if I sounded rude, it wasn't my intention, I was simply stating that the whole "FP uses these EFF file but you use those EFF files" seems a pointless complain, and that statement is for this specific matter, whereas the "domination inconsistency" is indeed something to complain about.

 

It matters instead, a lot. Sleep opcode is also used by things like Wing buffet or fighter's Smite HLA, do you think elves should be resistant to them because they end up "sleeping" for a round? Unconsciousness and sleep are not the same thing despite them sharing the same opcode due to hardcoded limitations. Elves may not sleep, but they can be knocked out, they are resistant to low lvl charm effects ("loss of will" is a quite incorrect term, "persuasion" or "affascination" would be better), but they are not immune to mental effects in general.

i've lost my hunger to argue. must be getting old.

What's there to argue?

 

anyway, since you do these things by hand -- and speaking of those mental effects in general -- think you can implement the saving throw bonus for high WIS vs mind spells and the immunity to illusions via high INT? unless that was streamlined out between editions at some point.

This requires some serious hacking (not my cup of tea), if doable A64 may work on it in the future.

[urdjur]

In other news, my rabbit familiar is doing 5-6 damage per hit A welcome surprise since the documentation says 1-2 points of damage. It's always 5 or 6 though, so there seems to be a +4 modifier in there somewhere (i.e. the base damage is as per the readme). Either the rabbit has a 18/76-90 strength (its attributes are undocumented in the SR v3 readme), or something else is going on. Care to look into it? Meanwhile, I intend to enjoy my pythonesque murder rabbit as long as the anomaly (if it is one) lasts.