Bhaalspawn age conundrum

[plainab]

Did not the Time of Trouble last for a good while? Certainly can't expect it to have lasted one day. Even for a god with a non-stop line of willing women, there isn't even enough time to get all the ones in the game conceived. So varied ages are to be expected amongst the bhaalspawn. Also all of the gods could have come in mortal form at any time prior and conceived children who by the time of the BG games would be adults and possibly with their own children too. (this I believe has already been suggested)...

 

As far as an elven PC (or any other race for that matter), being raised among humans they would be measured and tried by human standards. True an elven PC romping around the Sword Coast at age 20-something may seem far fetched. But given the story line, the fact that Gorion himself charged the PC to enlist the aid of Jaheira & Khalid, both of whom can be considered much older by elven standards (even tho they both be only half-elves), any other elves they interact with may simply be under the assumption that the PC is in the charge of Jaheira and Khalid.

[Miloch]

Did not the Time of Trouble last for a good while?

About 3 months in 1358, 20 years before Baldur's Gate starts in 1368.

 

But I think the answer to this problem is obvious. Bhaal was a Time Lord. While he supposedly fathered all these Bhaalspawn during the Time of Troubles, that doesn't mean he actually did so during the time of the Time of Troubles. In other words, at that time he was busy zipping about through time in space in his FR-equivalent of a TARDIS, making whoopy with humans, elves, halflings, dragons, giants, probably worse stuff, basically anything that moved, possibly quite a bit that didn't too. After all, he's a god. He's not constrained by mere time and space. How else can Tyr and Mielikki waft from Earth to Toril and practically be present on both at the same time, Odin could foretell Njord's birth even though Njord was supposedly older, another deity could give birth to his own son who was in fact the deity himself, and so on and so on. It's not just the FR that defies what we deem logical when it comes to deities.

 

Also, it's worth noting that the game lets you write whatever you want for your character's biography, so you needn't have been born 20 years ago, though people might assume you were, and you might *appear* to be 20 in human terms. As an orphan, the PC could've shown up in Candlekeep as a "child" of whatever race he or she is. Also worth noting that there are no true elven PCs - at best, they're half-elven, because the other half is Bhaalish (meaning half-elves are what - quarter elves if the mother was a half-elf?). A half-orc PC is almost easier to explain (Bhaal obviously not being fussy where he sowed his seed) but the other half, again, is not exactly human.

 

Edit: oh and another thing - all this shagging about literally took no time at all in local time, because Bhaal was able to navigate his time machine back to the exact moment when he left on his gigolo bender spree. That means he was free to take part in the rest of the events during the Time of Troubles, and made it back for his own death - the god of death wouldn't want to miss *that* now, would he? Nevermind the fact he'd already been killed as the Ravager in the Moonshae Isles some time ago.

 

Here's a little trivia I worked up from the age tables in the 2e Player's Handbook and Book of Humanoids. These are other race equivalents of human age:

Human	 20
Half-elf  23
Elf	  138
Dwarf	 78
Gnome	105
Halfling  35
Half-orc  17

So since Bhaalspawn elves are out (being all half-elves despite thinking they are elves) the tough ones to explain are dwarves and gnomes. Though who knows what half-dwarf and half-gnome statistics are with the other half being god. Probably would approach something like human as half-elves do (I'm talking about initial aging past adolescence, not ultimate mortality or immortality as the case may be).

[Linde Lou]

making whoopy with humans, elves, halflings, dragons, giants, probably worse stuff, basically anything that moved

Hey, don't forget about chinchillas! xD

I like your time table, it makes sense! I just wonder about few things stated in both protagonist's and Imoen bios. As far as I remember, Immy is said to come to Candlekeep some ten years after CHARNAME, and is also described as not much younger though she liked playing little sister? Also, human Gorion was well an adult when he decided to adopt Bhaalspawn, so he couldn't do so for very long time. Could he be able to tamper his own age so he could actually raise, say, dwarven kid for almost eighty years, taking he was a powerful mage? Probably. But then, there is pretty hilarious dialogue in BG1 after you return to Candlekeep, when two NPCs engage in swapping memories about protagonist's antics as a out-of-nappies little pest (kidnapping Khelben Blackstaff's cloak, I think).

[Nilfalasiel]

Did not the Time of Trouble last for a good while?

About 3 months in 1358, 20 years before Baldur's Gate starts in 1368.

 

Err...there's only 10 years between 1358 and 1368.

 

But I think the answer to this problem is obvious. Bhaal was a Time Lord. While he supposedly fathered all these Bhaalspawn during the Time of Troubles, that doesn't mean he actually did so during the time of the Time of Troubles. In other words, at that time he was busy zipping about through time in space in his FR-equivalent of a TARDIS, making whoopy with humans, elves, halflings, dragons, giants, probably worse stuff, basically anything that moved, possibly quite a bit that didn't too. After all, he's a god. He's not constrained by mere time and space. How else can Tyr and Mielikki waft from Earth to Toril and practically be present on both at the same time, Odin could foretell Njord's birth even though Njord was supposedly older, another deity could give birth to his own son who was in fact the deity himself, and so on and so on. It's not just the FR that defies what we deem logical when it comes to deities.

 

XD Hey, if he'd made himself look anything like David Tennant, I'd have been lining up too.

 

Here's a little trivia I worked up from the age tables in the 2e Player's Handbook and Book of Humanoids. These are other race equivalents of human age:

Human	 20
Half-elf  23
Elf	  138
Dwarf	 78
Gnome	105
Halfling  35
Half-orc  17

 

So since Bhaalspawn elves are out (being all half-elves despite thinking they are elves) the tough ones to explain are dwarves and gnomes. Though who knows what half-dwarf and half-gnome statistics are with the other half being god. Probably would approach something like human as half-elves do (I'm talking about initial aging past adolescence, not ultimate mortality or immortality as the case may be).

 

Well, who knows what any half-breed's statistics are, when the other half is a god? Is there any evidence that half-breeds would age the same way if one of their parents was a god instead of human? It seems strange to automatically apply half-elven standards to elven Bhaalspawn and not to dwarven or gnomish ones.

 

I like your time table, it makes sense! I just wonder about few things stated in both protagonist's and Imoen bios. As far as I remember, Immy is said to come to Candlekeep some ten years after CHARNAME, and is also described as not much younger though she liked playing little sister? Also, human Gorion was well an adult when he decided to adopt Bhaalspawn, so he couldn't do so for very long time. Could he be able to tamper his own age so he could actually raise, say, dwarven kid for almost eighty years, taking he was a powerful mage? Probably. But then, there is pretty hilarious dialogue in BG1 after you return to Candlekeep, when two NPCs engage in swapping memories about protagonist's antics as a out-of-nappies little pest (kidnapping Khelben Blackstaff's cloak, I think).

 

Yeah, I forgot about that flashback convo. Yet another inconsistency for an elven or dwarven protagonist. But since we're speaking of magic tampering, if Gorion didn't find an elven, dwarven or gnomish Bhaalspawn as a newborn, he could just as well have tampered with their memory so that they had no recollection of their life before Candlekeep, and then just raised them normally for whatever amount of time.

[Miloch]

Err...there's only 10 years between 1358 and 1368.

Eh, yeah. All the more reason for him to be a Time Lord .

 

Actually, there's no real need for a fancy machine since there's a whole host of spells that deal with time, apart from the known fact that time flows differently on different planes.

 

For example:

Othertime (Alteration, P5)

When a priest enters othertime, he steps into a different reality in which the world around him is frozen at a moment in the future.

 

Age Creature (Alteration, P6) - Reversible

This spell ages the targeted creature on year per level of the caster... The reverse of this spell, Restore Youth, reduces the age of the targeted creature by one year per level of the caster (there are also potions that accomplish this sort of thing).

 

Reversion (Quest)

By casting this spell, the priest reverses certain recent events in the area of effect. Casting this spell ages the priest one year.

 

It is said (Faiths & Avatars, p. 15) that some gods existed on multiple planes, even during the Time of Troubles, including Bane and Bhaal, who went through multiple avatar deaths before dying permanently. If Bhaal existed simultaneously in multiple planes, that could explain any number of offspring who aged at different rates. He could've been romping around as Ba'al on Bronze Age Earth at this time for all we know.

 

Bhaal at any rate was a human god, and thus his offspring would tend to take human traits (same as Zeus etc. appearing as a swan or who knows what other beings but still producing "human" demigod or hero offspring). Actually, there are more stories of gods and divine offspring aging faster to maturity rather than slower, so that could account for quick aging as well.

 

There were half-dwarves in Dark Sun ("muls") - not sure if they had aging stats but I'd guess they're something like 2e sundered dwarves who probably had human blood, i.e. look somewhat like tall dwarves but closer to human lifespans. They could come of age as young as 25 - a lot closer to 20 than 80. I suppose the same could be true for any theoretical half-gnome or half-halfling/half-Bhaalspawn characters (not that anyone ever plays the stunted races - everyone wants to be an elf ). Personally, I think any half-breeds (particularly half-Bhaalspawn) would come to maturity a lot closer to human ages. It's certainly true of half-elves and probably more so of other half-breeds being that they're already closer to human ages. It doesn't explain a 10-year interval between the Time of Troubles and start of Baldur's Gate. For that, we really need some sort of rift in the space-time continuum. Maybe Ao compressed time when he restored everything afterwards. There's probably some arcane spell like Decade Disappearance, also appearing in liquid form as "potion of homemade mushroom wine" where you go directly from the late 70s to the early 90s with no recollection whatsoever of the time in between.

[plainab]

I am humbly awaiting the newest mod...

 

Bhaal - The Master

He steps forth from what appears to be a simple shack. No mere mortal enemy is he. In his wake come all sorts of minions from the other planes of existence...

 

Will <CHARNAME>, a child of Bhaal, be able to put an end to this new reign of terror? Or will <CHARNAME> side with the Master and assist to bring in a glorious new world?

 

Meanwhile, deep in some backwater woods a blue box appears...

[grogerson]

From my copy of A Grand History of the Realms (from before it got absorbed by WotC):

"Names for the years are known collectively as the Roll of Years, as they are drawn from the predictions written down under that title by the famous Lost Sage, Augathra the Mad, with a few additions by the great seer Alaundo."

 

Mystra controls time. It's in her portfolio. Sorry, but I doubt Bhaal time traveled during the Time of Troubles.

 

Bhaal's demise was prophecied long before it happened. He knew of the prophecy. He set a plan in motion to allow for his return. How many centuries did he have to be such a profligate, I wonder? From Augathra the Mad or from Alaundo, I'm sure he had enough time to sire a half-dragon which could age enough to have offspring. So let's leave Galifrey, the Daleks and the rest of the Doctor's various adversaries in their proper time stream. One crack in space-time was enough. Just ask Rose.

 

Edit: Did a little bit of digging and found this.

-400 DR - Augathra wanders the Realms.

75 DR - Alaundo arrives at Candlekeep.

1358 DR - Time of Troubles (Bhaal dies).

 

Assuming it was Augathra who's prophecy it was that haunts <CHARNAME> when he leaves Candlekeep, that's over 1700 years he had to prepare. And nearly 1300 if it was Alaundo. Who needs a Time Lord?

[Rhaella]

Will <CHARNAME>, a child of Bhaal, be able to put an end to this new reign of terror? Or will <CHARNAME> side with the Master and assist to bring in a glorious new world?

 

Meanwhile, deep in some backwater woods a blue box appears...

 

Yes, but is it Delgado, Ainley, Jacobi, or Simm's Master? This is very important to my <CHARNAME>'s decision.

[plainab]

Who needs a Time Lord?

Oh but we could have a lot of fun if we did, couldn't we?

[Miloch]

Mystra controls time. It's in her portfolio. Sorry, but I doubt Bhaal time traveled during the Time of Troubles.

Eh. First of all, Mystra also died during the Time of Troubles. Secondly, her portfolio is "magic, spells, the weave" with the latter not referring to time, but "the conduit to enable mortal spellcasters and magical crafters to safely access the raw force that is magic" (Faiths & Avatars p. 128).

 

Her priests have access to the sphere of time, but then so do Bhaal's (minor access anyway). Even if she did somehow "control" time (she didn't) that hardly prevents other deities from using time-based magic. Yeah, Bhaal's avatar was more a fighter/thief than priest or mage, but if he could grant his priests time-based spells, he must've had some knowledge of it himself. That is, once he opened his mysterious timepiece and realised he was actually the Master.

[plainab]

If

Bhaal = the Master

then

Loviatar = Ranni

Lliira = Romana

Chronos = Rassilon

 

just haven't figured out who the Doctor would be

 

Yes I have Doctor Who on the brain, and as long as Miloch and grogerson keep scratching out tie-ins to the series, I'm gonna keep having ideas LOL

[grogerson]

Who needs a Time Lord?

Oh but we could have a lot of fun if we did, couldn't we?

If you like being run through with a spear, set ablaze in burning tar, being crushed under a wheel of a great siege engine... Messing with time has far too many *unpleasant* repercussions, if you get my meaning.

Mystra controls time. It's in her portfolio. Sorry, but I doubt Bhaal time traveled during the Time of Troubles.

Eh. First of all, Mystra also died during the Time of Troubles. Secondly, her portfolio is "magic, spells, the weave" with the latter not referring to time, but "the conduit to enable mortal spellcasters and magical crafters to safely access the raw force that is magic" (Faiths & Avatars p. 128).

My mistake. Mystryl, Mystra's predecessor, was who I was thinking about. And Amauntator, to a lesser degree. "Netheril: Empire of Magic" supplement. Still, I'm sure there are Powers that make such random access to the time stream highly restrictive. After all, they have a vested interest in keeping certain events in place, especially after the events that led to the fall of Netheril.

 

The Doctor, however, would probably be a tolerated nuisance since he doesn't like disrupting the time stream... too much...

[BigRob]

It was my impression (from the game and some PnP content) that Bhaal foresaw the Time of Troubles, possibly via Alaundo's Prophecies, possibly by being the god of death and having a sense about these things, possibly since he was involved in setting the Time of Troubles off in the first place, so he went out to hedge his bets on dying by laying down elements of his power among the Bhaalspawn over an extended period before the time of Troubles Began. Therefore, the specific age of any particualr Bhaalspawn is not an issue, since Bhaal was busy making them for centuries prior, presumably timing their births so that they'd all be appropriately aged when the time came for his rebirth.

[Psionica]

but is it possible the Solar was once Bhaal's minion?

 

Solar states that she has existed since the first strand of fate was woven, so long b4 Bhaal existed I would assume. I cant see her as ever embracing Bhaal or his ideals.

 

 

But given the story line, the fact that Gorion himself charged the PC to enlist the aid of Jaheira & Khalid, both of whom can be considered much older by elven standards (even tho they both be only half-elves), any other elves they interact with may simply be under the assumption that the PC is in the charge of Jaheira and Khalid.

 

Ah Jaheira my fav elf

 

Did not the Time of Trouble last for a good while?

About 3 months in 1358, 20 years before Baldur's Gate starts in 1368.

 

But I think the answer to this problem is obvious. Bhaal was a Time Lord.

 

Love the Dr Who reference

[ericp07]

Since when is it 20 years between 1358 and 1368?