Unearthed Arcana presents Scales of Balance: a post-hac tweak pack

[Quester]

I was sort of basing the above off the assumption that you're using SoB's armor system which gives DR to all armors, plus the fact that you'll eventually be able to increase your physical DR even more with magical items which add to it. So the feats would only be contributing a small part of the total possible percentage. That was the idea anyway - and that to achieve the maximum possible DR you would have to give up a few feat points which could otherwise have been spent on other useful abilities.

[subtledoctor]

Yeah this DR works well with YARAS because it adds more of what you already have; it’s good for rangers because it makes light armors protect like heavier armors; and YARAS already removes the “100% DR” tactic so this extra 10% won’t break things. 

Without YARAS, this 10% DR will be not very noticeable (because it might be your only source of DR) or it will help tjose specialized builds trying to teach 100% DR with the DoE etc. (but those builds would get there anyway).

I’m playing a game with the toughness feat and YARAS right now, and I’m pretty satisfied with how it works. And there have definitely been characters who I gave resistance to poison or resistance to stun/hold, instead. So I don’t think Toughness needs to get nerfed. Though I would definitely welcome gameplay feedback from others!

Edited September 25, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Endarire]

I never used single handed style since it never seemed useful enough.  Merging it with 2HS is more useful.

[subtledoctor]

Now that I’ve figured out an effective way to convert proficiency pips into feats, things are moving quickly. I think I’m going to consolidate a few things: the ‘Fighting Dirty’ and ‘Precise Strike’ feats from Might & Guile will be absorbed into the ‘fighting postures’ category, as will the old ‘Group Tactics’ feat. There are currently nine Fighting Postures:

1. Leadership
2. Grappling
3. Precise Strike
4. Parry Slashing
5. Parry Piercing
6. Parry Crushing
7. Missile Snaring
8. Fighting Dirty
9. Spell Evasion

You can learn up to five of these (or maybe seven?) and can switch at will among the ones you have learned. But only one can be active at any time. So you can be defensive and block one slashing attack each round; and then go on the offensive and have a higher crit chance; and then later turtle up and avoid the effects of Fireballs. If you invest the pips into the different postures. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by subtledoctor

[subtledoctor]

Making lots of progress. Almost ready. But I still need to figure out what to do with weapon styles. Currently the setup looks like

Weapons: four pips can be spent (proficiency/specialization/mastery/grandmastery). Only fighters can get grandmastery (except for special cases like Archers etc.). Bonuses are something like:

1. no  non-proficiency  penalty
2. +2 attack, +1 damage
3. +3 attack, +3 damage
4. +3 attack, +3 damage, +.5 APR

Attack Speed: four pips can be spent on this. It will increase APR but penalize thac0. Warriors can spend four pips here, non-warriors maybe 2 or 3 (depending on kit?). So note, a fighter can get 4 pips in a weapon and 4 pips in attack speed, resulting in a base APR of 3 - same as base game's grandmastery at level 13. I think I'm going to  delay 4 pips until 9th level (in PROFSMAX.2da) which would mean fighters could achieve this at ~12th level.

1. 2-point bonus to weapon speed
2. + .5 APR, -1 to attack rolls
3. + 1 APR, -2 to attack rolls
4. + 1.5 APR, -3 to attack rolls

Dodge, Ranged Accuracy: I think these can allow 5 pips to be spent for special cases like Swashbucklers and Archers (respectively), while limiting others to 2 pips. Each one gives a 1-point bonus to AC / ranged thac0/damage (respectively)

Hurled Weapons: thrown weapons (daggers, darts, axes, hammers) will have a natural -4 penalty to attack rolls.  Each rank in Hurled Weapons will give a +2 bonus and the limit will be 3 pips, so with 3 pips here you'll end up with a +2 bonus to attack rolls. Mix with 2 pips in Ranged Accuracy for another +2 bonus. Halflings will automatically get 2 pips in this.

Single-Weapon Style, Two-Hand Weapon Style, Weapon+Shield Style, Two-Weapon Style: this is the  question of the hour. What should the bonuses be? How many pips can be spent here? I can envision two possible routes:

• A. Allow 2 pips in each, and just implement the SoB weapon styles that are already in this mod. They are already nicely balanced and more interesting than the base game's styles. In this case, changing weapon styles could even be optional - just leave  the question to be answered by the SoB Revised Weapon Styles component.
• B. Allow 4 pips in each style, to harmonize with the other weapon proficiencies and the Attack Speed proficiency. This would be nicely uniform and allow more variation in how you develop a warrior in the middle levels. But I would have to figure out how to stretch the bonuses across 4 pips will still making each advance interesting and worthwhile.

I'm leaning toward option A... it would entail a lot less work.

But I'm slightly worried about the differences in how many pips you can spend...

• 4 for individual weapons
• 4 for Attack Speed
• 5 for Dodge
• 5 for Ranged Accuracy
• 3 for Hurled Weapons
• 2 for SWS
• 2 for THW
• 2 for SnS
• 2 or 3 for DW

That's kind of all over the map. Maybe I should harmonize things a bit: bring the limits down to 4 for Dodge and Accuracy (4  for some kits, 2 for most kits), drop Hurled  Weapons to 2 (make the base penalty -3, and give +2 per rank, up to a +1 bonus with 2 ranks). That would simplify things:

• 4 pips for individual weapons
• 4 pips for Attack Speed
• 2 / 4 pips for Dodge (depending on kit)
• 2 / 4 pips for Ranged Accuracy (depending on kit)
• 2 pips for Hurled Weapons
• 2 pips for the four weapons styles

That's easier for players to remember - 2 or 4  right down the line. (We'll leave side the various choose-by-dialogue skills where you can spend 5 or even 7 pips).

The only wrinkle is that the rate at which you spend pips is very front-loaded. Warriors can spend 2 pips in a single proficiency right off the bat at character creation, which means they could completely master several skills right from the beginning of the game.

Maybe warriors should only get to spend 1 pip at 1st level, and then advance to 2 pips from 2nd level on? Hmmm...

[Endarire]

Why should I spent proficiency points to be less accurate, even if I attack faster?

What about allowing all classes to put maximum points in everything if they want to aid in customization?

Edited September 28, 2022 by Endarire

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, Endarire said:

Why should I spent proficiency points to be less accurate, even if I attack faster?

Because APR trumps everything in this game.  Offsetting thac0 advancement tones down the power of it a little bit. (And it kind of simulates the way APR bonuses work in 3E: there, your second attack has a thac0 penalty compared to the first one; and the third one an even bigger thac0 penalty.  Et cetera. I cannot give different thac0 adjustments to each attack in this game engine, but we can simulate it by applying a small adjustment across all the attacks.

2 hours ago, Endarire said:

What about allowing all classes to put maximum points in everything if they want to aid in customization?

Lol, you are more than welcome to change things around in your own game after installing the mod...

[Endarire]

The 'anything for all classes' is a handy install time option for those who want a more Elder Scrolls-like experience.

[subtledoctor]

I've got the 'Combat Skill Points' system in installable condition, and mostly working! I'm actually excited for this, it seems pretty slick. For now at least, I'm not going to change weapon styles. So you have the choice between normal weapon styles, or the SoB revised  styles, or some other kind of modded styles.

All that remains to be done:

• change shield bash
• implement grappling
• add bonus stuff for certain kits and races
• modify class/kit descriptions
• EDIT - assign combat skills to enemies

Nearly there!

Edited October 1, 2022 by subtledoctor

[morpheus562]

Will enemies have their profs reassigned to the new groups and will they have access to the net new profs? What about recruitable NPCs? Does this change install order (i.e. SCS is going off original pip locations and assignments).

Edited October 1, 2022 by morpheus562

[subtledoctor]

17 hours ago, morpheus562 said:

Will enemies have their profs reassigned to the new groups and will they have access to the net new profs? What about recruitable NPCs?

This one doesn't collapse weapon categories very much. The only changes from the vanilla system are:

• bastard sword and long sword are lumped together under stat 90
• quarterstaff is unchanged, but moved from stat 102 to stat 89
• darts are merged with daggers, moving from stat 106 to stat 96
• halberds are merged with spears, moving from stat 99 to stat 98
• clubs and maces are merged together and both moved, from stats 101/115 to stat 99
• slings are unchanged, but moved up from stat 107 to stat 101
• long bows and short bows are merged together and both moved, from stats 104/105 to stat 102

All .CRE files in the game have their op233 effects changed to match these changes. So a Candlekeep guard might have a 233 effect setting proficiency in stat 102, and they carry a quarterstaff. Now quarterstaves use stat 89 for proficiency, so those guards will have their op233 effects changed to set proficiency in stat 89.

17 hours ago, morpheus562 said:

Does this change install order (i.e. SCS is going off original pip locations and assignments)

Is that true? SCS assumes original proficiencies? I though it looked at what weapon they are carrying, looked at the proficiency stat of that weapon, and applied op233 effects to match their weapon? In any event, if this needs to be installed after SCS that's probably fine. I'll run some tests with SCS before I release it.

Stats 104 through 108, plus stat 110, are now the improvable combat skills. Stuff like the Dodge feat (most characters can spend two pips for -2 AC; Swashbucklers can spend up to 6 pips for -6 AC) and the Ranged Accuracy feat ((most characters can spend two pips for +2 ranged thac0/damage; Archers can spend up to 6 pips for +6 ranged thac0/damage), etc. These proficiencies, and their effects, will have to be set manually on enemies. Probably run through all enemies and check their class, and give fighters and thieves a random assortment of bonuses. (Added to my to-do list - thanks for reminding me!)

Stat 110 is part of Detectable Spells - "CLERIC_ARMOR_OF_FAITH" - but across several installs with different mods, I cannot find a spell or script that actually uses it. So I'm stealing it.

Stat 109 is used by Detectable Spells and, as far as I can tell, SCS is still using it. So I don't touch it. (I don't think it actually serves much purpose for any of these mods... but it appears too often to reliably extricate it. )

Stats 111 through 114 are the weapon styles. These are also untouched.

Stats 115, 124, 127, and 134 are the various skills that allow you to choose a feat by dialogue. Stat 127 is WIZARD_MISLEAD, again technically part of Detectable Spells but I've never seen it actually used in any scripts. So I'm stealing it. Stat 124 is CLERIC_REGENERATION, which is part of DS and is used in scripts... a very small amount. Like, a vanishingly small number of times. I am going to remove it from any scripts and steal it. Your mod may actually make use of this one (maybe?); what I plan to do is replace any op233 effects setting this stat with op328 effects setting a spellstate instead; and changing any triggers for this stat in scripts into trigger for the spellstate. That assumes this mod would be installed after yours; if you want, you can proactively do the same thing in your mod, using a spellstate instead of stat 124. (Check for FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~d5__combat_skills.d5~... or honestly, maybe, just use a spellstate anyway? Couldn't hurt...)

Here again, I will probably run through the games' enemies and randomly assign some of these feats based on their class and level. Some of these should definitely make enemies a bit spicier. Some will grapple you, some will fight dirty and blind you, some will be able to parry your attacks or evade your fireballs or shrug off your poison. Etc.

Edited October 2, 2022 by subtledoctor

[morpheus562]

I would need to dive into specifics of SCS if it grabs the prof off the weapon or how it does that assignment. I went the route to just install after.

Edited October 2, 2022 by morpheus562

[subtledoctor]

I suppose if I wanted to be cautious, I could leave staves, maces, slings and bows where they were, and use stats 89, 99, 101, and 102 for the new combat skills.  They would be out of order for the way I  want to  present things  to the player, but  I'm pretty sure you can change the order of their appearance in the UI by just rearranging the rows of WEAPPROF.2da.

But I'm not  too worried about the reassignments. Plenty of other mods already combine proficiencies, e.g. CDTweaks, IWDification. I've never noticed problems from that sort of thing.

But easy enough to test. Might as well be sure.

Edited October 2, 2022 by subtledoctor

[subtledoctor]

So, one of the interesting things that this can do, is evaluate proficiencies as you start the game and apply conditional effects. I am using this for  e.g. Swashbucklers, who now have to buy AC bonuses with pips instead of getting them for free. As you start the game, however many pips you pit unto the AC skill, you will end up with one  extra pip in it. So Swashies will get a bonus pip in the Dodge skill the way rangers get bonus pips in dual-wielding. Likewise, Assassins  will get a bonus pip in backstabbing, and Archers will get a bonus pip in ranged accuracy.

But  we can extend this further. In addition to those, I've currently got Rangers getting the Tracking and Quickstride feats for free; and  Shadowdancers get Shadowstep  for free instead of having to learn it with a pip, and get two bonus 'spell points' for use with Shadowstep or any other spells they learn. Halflings automatically get full specialization with hurled weapons, as well as a bonus pip in Slings.

Any other ideas for this kind of targeted bonus skills?

[GawainBS]

Something for the poor Bladesinger? ;⁠)