IR Revised V1.3.800 (2022 January 11th)

[jmerry]

Right, SCS does have an "extra scrolls" component. It adds the following sequence of scrolls (base game version; SR would change some of these) to a random store: Remove Magic, Invisibility 10', Spell Shield, Summon Nishruu, Stone to Flesh, Mordenkainen's Sword, Control Undead, Bigby's Clenched Fist, Bigby's Crushing Hand, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Pierce Shield, Improved Mantle. If the store chosen is Bernard's, those scrolls are added after Incendiary Cloud. Actually, each one is added immediately after Incendiary Cloud, so the order reverses in the final version of the store.

Checking the "scroll shadow" list for the IWD spells component ... while some of those spells do have shadows, none of the IWD spells added start with S. I'm thinking it's more likely that one of these scrolls failed directly. What does SR do to Spell Shield, Summon Nishruu, and Stone to Flesh? If any of those SPELL.IDS references go away, or the spell being referenced no longer has a scroll, the %WIZARD_%spell%_SCROLL% reference doesn't evaluate properly and you get WIZARD_S in the store that doesn't point to an actual item.

[Bartimaeus]

21 hours ago, jmerry said:

Right, SCS does have an "extra scrolls" component. It adds the following sequence of scrolls (base game version; SR would change some of these) to a random store: Remove Magic, Invisibility 10', Spell Shield, Summon Nishruu, Stone to Flesh, Mordenkainen's Sword, Control Undead, Bigby's Clenched Fist, Bigby's Crushing Hand, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Pierce Shield, Improved Mantle. If the store chosen is Bernard's, those scrolls are added after Incendiary Cloud. Actually, each one is added immediately after Incendiary Cloud, so the order reverses in the final version of the store.

Checking the "scroll shadow" list for the IWD spells component ... while some of those spells do have shadows, none of the IWD spells added start with S. I'm thinking it's more likely that one of these scrolls failed directly. What does SR do to Spell Shield, Summon Nishruu, and Stone to Flesh? If any of those SPELL.IDS references go away, or the spell being referenced no longer has a scroll, the %WIZARD_%spell%_SCROLL% reference doesn't evaluate properly and you get WIZARD_S in the store that doesn't point to an actual item.

It's probably Stone to Flesh, since it doesn't have a scroll in SR/R (function absorbed into Remove Curse AKA Break Enchantment).

[jmerry]

Since SCS explicitly supports Spell Revisions for its caster AI, it should support Spell Revisions here as well. Reported.

[Graion Dilach]

Except that this isn't really an SCS bug, but SR's.

Stone to Flesh is unchanged in an SR install. It's scroll is probably repurposed for something else leading to it without a scroll, but the SPL and the SPELL.IDS entry remains around. Come to think of it, if SR would overwrite Stone to Flesh's SPELL.IDS entry to point at Break Enchantment, the bug would also fix itself.

[jmerry]

Break Enchantment is already replacing an existing spell with an IDS entry - Remove Curse. And that one's the same level, which is important since level is encoded in SPELL.IDS entries. Stone to Flesh is at a higher level; if SR wanted to repurpose that IDS entry, it would be for a level 6 spell.

Having a spell with a SPWI name and corresponding IDS entry but no scroll is perfectly fine; Dimension Door is like that in vanilla. And the macros SCS uses do a perfectly sensible thing with that; they just don't define the corresponding _SCROLL variable at all. Which becomes a problem later when a component adds scrolls to a shop without bothering to check that the variables for their resource references are even defined. This one's on SCS. And the fix is already out in the form of a pull request.

[Graion Dilach]

I understand your logic but I still think you're wrong.

Your interpretation of the issue is that SR only disables the scroll and SCS should handle that. My interpretation of the issue is however that SR does a sloppy work at deleting the spell itself (the documentation says the spell doesn't exist), because it gets added to the hidespls (which SR also handles badly, because it ignores SoD/EET/BG2EE diifferences and/or mods adding more of such, due to it overwriting the whole file blindly), but that's all what it does.

There's zero reason for SR to waste a spell slot. We have reached the state where spell allocations are dynamic for the most part (and only legacy mods rely on static lists, like CtB). If SR cares about mod compatibility, it should clean up the spell slot and assign the IDS entry as an alternative to Break Enchantment (Note that SR reused vanilla IDS entries where it reallocated the spell like PROTECTION_FROM_PETRIFICATION and added the alternative entries where it revamped a spell, so both WIZARD_KNOCK and WIZARD_BATTERING_RAM exists).

If SR's intention is to delete the spell, then it should do that properly, via deleting the files and the references. Both EET and MiH has code for to play nice and clearing out the unused slots from SPELL.IDS. But because it's a vanilla spell and noidea how many mods/scripts reference the spell IDS entry, renumbering WIZARD_STONE_TO_FLESH as an alternative of WIZARD_BREAK_ENCHANTMENT atleast ensures that code would play nicely for the most part.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Graion Dilach

[magisensei]

Hi

Some question:

1) Wand of Lightning: "Lightning Bolt: 6D6 (save vs. wand at -4 neg. half)". -- does the wand still fire 6 lightning bolts or is it just one? or does this mean that the total of 6 lightning bolt is 6d6?

2) Robe of the Apprenti: loses the spell memorization property (this made it way too strong for something that was supposed to be dirt cheap to make...), and instead it simply sets your AC to 3. -- does this make it easier for the mage apprentices to make or is the percentages still the same to successfully make this?

3) Is IR Revised - question about installation - is "IR Revised" considered a 2nd component when installing?

4) Gloves of Missile Snaring: removes them from Ikona (Trademeet Shadow Thief who only appears for a very short amount of time) and puts them on sale at the Trademeet Shadow Thief store.-- I get these gloves from a different mod that puts it on the shadow thieves before escaping Irenicus' dungeon - will your mod move these gloves from the mod that made it a drop during the first dungeon?

5) Boots of Lightning Speed: removes duplicate pair from Habib (guy who throws scimitars at you randomly in Athkatla) as well as the Underdark and similarly places them at the Trademeet Shadow Thief store.-- I've installed Almateria's Restoration Project that gives these boots to Habib so your mod moves it?

6) Rod of Lordly Might: Experimenting with a new design - now an actual weapon a la Rod of Terror or Rod of Smiting. A +3 club that has a defensive +2 bonus to AC (useful as an off-hand weapon), it can transform into a Flail of Disruption (destroys undead creatures a la the Mace of Disruption), a flaming long sword, a hypnotic axe (confusing, sleeping, or stunning on hit), or a spear of speed (+1 APR, also can be thrown). -- will this over write another mod that changes the rod already? Although I think your changes is for the better -it is now a little op. 

- and does this mean that throwing spears will be added to the game if this is installed or is it just this one item that is a throwing spear?

7) Rod of Wonder: For the time being, it can 3x per day affect the targeted character with one of nine random effects: a 10D6 Fireball, a 10D4 + 10 Cone of Cold, a 10D6 Lightning Bolt, a 1 turn Cloudkill, a Domination spell, a Flesh to Stone spell, a single target Haste spell, a 5 skin Stoneskin, or a 1 turn Globe of Invulnerability; there is also a 10% chance of a Prismatic Explosion occurring centered around the caster instead. --- is it possible to not install this component in some way when installing the rod component - I actually like the wand of wonder

8 ) In general why does the wand revision make the wands more powerful (more damage, harder saves) when they worked well in the first place?

Thanks

[Bartimaeus]

On 6/21/2023 at 7:28 PM, magisensei said:

1) Wand of Lightning: "Lightning Bolt: 6D6 (save vs. wand at -4 neg. half)". -- does the wand still fire 6 lightning bolts or is it just one? or does this mean that the total of 6 lightning bolt is 6d6?

One bolt that does 6D6.

On 6/21/2023 at 7:28 PM, magisensei said:

2) Robe of the Apprenti: loses the spell memorization property (this made it way too strong for something that was supposed to be dirt cheap to make...), and instead it simply sets your AC to 3. -- does this make it easier for the mage apprentices to make or is the percentages still the same to successfully make this?

It's the same as in vanilla. Actually, apparently I just set the property of these robes back to the exact same property as vanilla, as that's exactly what they did there. I never saw a great way of handling these "of the Apprenti" items.

On 6/21/2023 at 7:28 PM, magisensei said:

3) Is IR Revised - question about installation - is "IR Revised" considered a 2nd component when installing?

No, it basically hijacks the normal IR installer.

On 6/21/2023 at 7:28 PM, magisensei said:

5) Boots of Lightning Speed: removes duplicate pair from Habib (guy who throws scimitars at you randomly in Athkatla) as well as the Underdark and similarly places them at the Trademeet Shadow Thief store.-- I've installed Almateria's Restoration Project that gives these boots to Habib so your mod moves it?

Yes, I believe so - if ALMRP is installed before IRR.

On 6/21/2023 at 7:28 PM, magisensei said:

6) Rod of Lordly Might: Experimenting with a new design - now an actual weapon a la Rod of Terror or Rod of Smiting. A +3 club that has a defensive +2 bonus to AC (useful as an off-hand weapon), it can transform into a Flail of Disruption (destroys undead creatures a la the Mace of Disruption), a flaming long sword, a hypnotic axe (confusing, sleeping, or stunning on hit), or a spear of speed (+1 APR, also can be thrown). -- will this over write another mod that changes the rod already? Although I think your changes is for the better -it is now a little op. 

If IR is installed after said mod that changes the Rod of Lordly Might, yes. As for throwing spears/javelins, there are three such enchanted spears: Impaler, Talos' Fury, and Spear of Lordly Might. I intended to add javelins to stores at some point through Store Revisions, but...there's a number of things that are a work in progress with that.

On 6/21/2023 at 7:28 PM, magisensei said:

7) Rod of Wonder: For the time being, it can 3x per day affect the targeted character with one of nine random effects: a 10D6 Fireball, a 10D4 + 10 Cone of Cold, a 10D6 Lightning Bolt, a 1 turn Cloudkill, a Domination spell, a Flesh to Stone spell, a single target Haste spell, a 5 skin Stoneskin, or a 1 turn Globe of Invulnerability; there is also a 10% chance of a Prismatic Explosion occurring centered around the caster instead. --- is it possible to not install this component in some way when installing the rod component - I actually like the wand of wonder

Go into item_rev\components\main\items.2da and delete the entire "ROD_OF_WONDER[...]" line before installing IR.

On 6/21/2023 at 7:28 PM, magisensei said:

8 ) In general why does the wand revision make the wands more powerful (more damage, harder saves) when they worked well in the first place?

To more closely match the spells they're imitating. Additionally, IR decided to limit wands' charges to 10 instead of the old...what was it, 50? So it makes sense to make them stronger, but I would agree that it can unfortunately be a little problematic for BG1. It can be a difficult balance to strike between the two games.

[magisensei]

Hi

56 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

One bolt that does 6D6

56 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

To more closely match the spells they're imitating. Additionally, IR decided to limit wands' charges to 10 instead of the old...what was it, 50? So it makes sense to make them stronger, but I would agree that it can unfortunately be a little problematic for BG1. It can be a difficult balance to strike between the two games.

Here is an idea: to nerf the wands but still make them useful in both campaigns

Would it be possible to make a 1d3 lightning wand that still fired up to 6 bolts at once - one of things about magical spells is the inability to target multiple enemies and the lightning wand was the only one - the damage for each could be nerfed but you would still be able to fire at multiple enemies safely (assuming you turned off the bouncing lightning bolt).

A wand should be something convenient to use and not as powerful as the spells cast by a mage - therefore a weaker wand that does something a bit different from the actual spell might be a possible idea.  

Imagine a fire wand that fired mini-fireball (for just one creature 1d3 fire damage) that could aim at 1-6 creatures or a wand of frost - that fired icicle bolts (ice damage)

If you had wands that could do the above - it would be useful in Bg1 still without being overly powerful and still usable in BG2 to some degree to soften monsters up or disrupt enemies. 

I did notice there was no improvement to the wand of magic missile - lol -- does anyone after level 1 even use this wand? probably the most useless wand added to the game but if you could fire at multiple targets then it would become somewhat useful. 

Just of curiosity would it be possible to add a nerfed "Robe of Vecna" to your mod as well - nerfing spell-casting speed from 4 to 1( or 2)?

BTW - can IR and IRR be added to a game already in progress or would I have to start a new play through?

Edited June 23, 2023 by magisensei

[Salk]

The point raised about wands has my sympathy. 

But making them match the properties of the spell is a consistency fix, in my view. What I would do is to nerf the number of charges further. I think 10 is still a little bit too high a number and I would halve it.

[Bartimaeus]

15 hours ago, magisensei said:

BTW - can IR and IRR be added to a game already in progress or would I have to start a new play through?

I wouldn't install either IR or IRR to a game already in progress. When you go into a new area or open a store or come across a certain creature/character for the first time, an "instance" that saves the state of those objects is now included in your save file, and those instances will never be replaced no matter how many mods you install or uninstall, so proceeding to do so can be a dangerous affair. One example of this might affect you installing IR is that IR moves around a number of artifacts - if it takes an item from an area, creature, or store that you've already come across and puts it somewhere you haven't, it will result in duplicates. The opposite can happen as well: if it takes an item from something you haven't come across to somewhere you have, that item won't ever exist in your currently ongoing game.

15 hours ago, magisensei said:

I did notice there was no improvement to the wand of magic missile - lol -- does anyone after level 1 even use this wand? probably the most useless wand added to the game but if you could fire at multiple targets then it would become somewhat useful. 

Well, it fires 3 missiles instead of 1 like it used to, if I'm not mistaken. Wand of Magic Missile's strength lies in the fact that it is usable by everyone. Firing 3 missiles can be e.g. a cheap and easy spellcasting disruptor used by someone who wouldn't have any spells/abilities queued up otherwise, probably a thief or fighter.

15 hours ago, magisensei said:

Just of curiosity would it be possible to add a nerfed "Robe of Vecna" to your mod as well - nerfing spell-casting speed from 4 to 1( or 2)?

Robe of "Vecna" (Larloch in IR) only gives a +2 bonus to casting speed already (and also relocates it to the tail-end of Watcher's Keep, on one of the seal guardians...Azamantes, I think is their name).

15 hours ago, magisensei said:

Would it be possible to make a 1d3 lightning wand that still fired up to 6 bolts at once - one of things about magical spells is the inability to target multiple enemies and the lightning wand was the only one - the damage for each could be nerfed but you would still be able to fire at multiple enemies safely (assuming you turned off the bouncing lightning bolt).

A wand should be something convenient to use and not as powerful as the spells cast by a mage - therefore a weaker wand that does something a bit different from the actual spell might be a possible idea.  

Imagine a fire wand that fired mini-fireball (for just one creature 1d3 fire damage) that could aim at 1-6 creatures or a wand of frost - that fired icicle bolts (ice damage)

If you had wands that could do the above - it would be useful in Bg1 still without being overly powerful and still usable in BG2 to some degree to soften monsters up or disrupt enemies. 

You know, I kind of both like and hate the idea of wands being able to do multiple targets, but I think the fact is that the capability is simply not handled very well in the BG engine. Once you activate it, you have to stay on the character without selecting any other characters or accidentally clicking any other buttons while rapidly pausing and unpausing to use all of them. The effect being that you use it and then immediately unleash all of them in an obnoxious flurry of pauses anyways - this setup would really only make sense for Wand of Lightning and Wand of Magic Missile, I think, and if I were implementing it, I'd probably limit it to three bolts instead of six or whatever.

Interestingly, it's only in BG2 that this multi-target Wand of Lightning exists - in BG1, the Wand of Lightning did the same 6D6 bolt that IRR uses (though not with as severe of a saving throw).

Edited June 24, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[magisensei]

5 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Well, it fires 3 missiles instead of 1 like it used to, if I'm not mistaken. Wand of Magic Missile's strength lies in the fact that it is usable by everyone. Firing 3 missiles can be e.g. a cheap and easy spellcasting disruptor used by someone who wouldn't have any spells/abilities queued up otherwise, probably a thief or fighter.

lol - when I read this I thought wow did I miss this because I basically ignore the MM-wand in BG2 (it just sits on my book shelf in my stronghold room or in the wand case) - went into my current run and tried it and nope my MM wand still fires one.  Maybe its Imoen's MM wand from BG1 that does that (I read somewhere that it was a different MM-wand code) but the standard MM-wand in BG2 is unfortunately only 1 missile.  ....lol so I guess the MM-wand will just stay in the wand case

5 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Robe of "Vecna" (Larloch in IR) only gives a +2 bonus to casting speed already (and also relocates it to the tail-end of Watcher's Keep, on one of the seal guardians...Azamantes, I think is their name).

I must have totally missed that in the readme... thanks - but the funny thing is that I really dont do WK much less ToB - after the first time ...oh well I'll just ignore Robe of Vecna in this play through ...

 

5 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

You know, I kind of both like and hate the idea of wands being able to do multiple targets, but I think the fact is that the capability is simply not handled very well in the BG engine. Once you activate it, you have to stay on the character without selecting any other characters or accidentally clicking any other buttons while rapidly pausing and unpausing to use all of them. The effect being that you use it and then immediately unleash all of them in an obnoxious flurry of pauses anyways - this setup would really only make sense for Wand of Lightning and Wand of Magic Missile, I think, and if I were implementing it, I'd probably limit it to three bolts instead of six or whatever.

Interestingly, it's only in BG2 that this multi-target Wand of Lightning exists - in BG1, the Wand of Lightning did the same 6D6 bolt that IRR uses (though not with as severe of a saving throw).

Ya - the wand of lightning and targeting in BG2 is really not that great (horrible if we are honest about it) - I generally have to target a few times because my finger slips - oh well the limits of engines - I wonder if using EEex would make it easier to do .... just a random thought ...

[Bartimaeus]

On 6/24/2023 at 11:21 AM, magisensei said:

lol - when I read this I thought wow did I miss this because I basically ignore the MM-wand in BG2 (it just sits on my book shelf in my stronghold room or in the wand case) - went into my current run and tried it and nope my MM wand still fires one.  Maybe its Imoen's MM wand from BG1 that does that (I read somewhere that it was a different MM-wand code) but the standard MM-wand in BG2 is unfortunately only 1 missile.  ....lol so I guess the MM-wand will just stay in the wand case

Yeah, Imoen's Wand has its own item code distinct from the normal Wand of Magic Missile and thus may have different properties. IRR changes her wand to be the same as the normal Wand of Magic Missile, but I've never much loved this either. Perhaps the best solution would be to restore its ridiculous amount of charges (100?), change it back to one missile, and then change its name to "Imoen's Wand of Magic Missile" or maybe even just "Imoen's Wand" while specifying one missile in the description.

On 6/24/2023 at 11:21 AM, magisensei said:

I must have totally missed that in the readme... thanks - but the funny thing is that I really dont do WK much less ToB - after the first time ...oh well I'll just ignore Robe of Vecna in this play through ...

I'm not too much of a fan of ToB myself, but I do like Watcher's Keep, so that tends to be the end of my playthroughs in recent years.

On 6/24/2023 at 11:21 AM, magisensei said:

Ya - the wand of lightning and targeting in BG2 is really not that great (horrible if we are honest about it) - I generally have to target a few times because my finger slips - oh well the limits of engines - I wonder if using EEex would make it easier to do .... just a random thought ...

I'm particularly sensitive to any issue of needing to rapidly pause/unpause many times for something to work after having played through all of BG1:EE in multiplayer recently and needing to pause a lot turning into a huge pain in the butt (that and the EE multiplayer being just kind of buggy and horrible in general).

Edited June 26, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[morpheus562]

I noticed a bug when installing the Revised Armor component. If an armor already has DR on it, this component will add its DR effect AND modifies the existing DR on the item.

For example:

• With Enkidu's armor I have a mod that increases Slashing and Piercing DR by +10%.
• Revised Armor component is then installed at the end after the first mod.
• Revised Armor component adds an additional +20% DR for all physical damage (desired behavior).
• Revised Armor then updates the existing DR effect for both Slashing and Piercing from +10% to +30% (10% from original mod + 20% from Revised Armor).
• Now Enkidu's Armor will provide +50% DR to both Slashing and Piercing instead of the expected +30%.

[Alywena]

Does this patch solve the problem?

https://github.com/subtledoctor/ItemRevisions/pull/2