Cleric Kits

[Grim Squeaker]

Sounds good.

[CamDawg]

The trouble with the IWD2 kits as they are is that many of the domain spells (which you say will stay the same) are IWD-only spells, and it might not be easy to port those from one game to another (if you can do it, please, port the druidic spells too, those in BG2 as it is are mostly crap). And there's still no real penalties (unless you see implementing domain spheres as one) -> even though Demarchs are not allowed to wear better that studded leather by Mask, they're basking in full plate!

 

PS. A SP of Iyachtu Xvim is called Authlim, not Dreadmaster.

More crossposting...

 

The spell porting is a concern, and one that will likely have to be addressed case-by-case. Most of them appear to have 2e equivalents.

 

The disadvantages are one less cleric spell per level. This makes spell selection much less flexible in exchange for some minor bonuses and a fixed domain spell. It's similar to a mage/sorcerer tradeoff, except that you don't get to pick the domain spell as it is fixed by the kit.

 

As far as porting IWD spells, we'll see. My idea list is already pretty long.

[Andyr]

Why not restrict some of the spheres of spells for the clerics as a disadvantage?

[CamDawg]

Like restricting Morninglords from animating dead, that kind of stuff? It seems like the one less spell per level is not being taken as a big enough disadvantage, so we may need to do it.

[Koson]

The spell porting is a concern, and one that will likely have to be addressed case-by-case. Most of them appear to have 2e equivalents.

Not really - look at the Silverstars for example! Although some of the others are there or have replacements.

 

The disadvantages are one less cleric spell per level. This makes spell selection much less flexible in exchange for some minor bonuses and a fixed domain spell. It's similar to a mage/sorcerer tradeoff, except that you don't get to pick the domain spell as it is fixed by the kit.

The only "problem" the one less cleric spell per level might seem to cause is at the last spell levels, where there's not that many spell slots and several appealing choices. But the high end domain spells are really powerful too, so actually there's no loss, only more diversity. As a matter of fact, if you substract one standard spell per level and add one domain spell per level, in the end you still have the same number of spells per level with more choices available. Which is actually great.

I fail to see how implementing domains can be seen as a disadvantage - isn't this the whole point of playing a SP in the first place? Admitedly, BG2 didn't do too good a job at this, but they tried their best with the available spells and tried to add the domain bonuses as special abilities as not to be available to other clerical kits / vanilla clerics. And in the end the only valid disadvantage they could have added was having Morninglords wear up to plate mail; the rest did not cause any dogmatic contradictions.

[Koson]

Here’s a couple more clerical kits, these being non-IWD2 ones. Although most likely not all will be implemented (if any ), it doesn’t hurt to have more than one option for a given alignment.

 

Icepriest of Auril

 

Alignments: Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil

Ability Requirements: Constitution 13, Wisdom 12

Advantages:

- The Icepriest is under the effect of the spell Protection From Cold at all times.

- May cast Ice Storm once per day per 5 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- May cast Cone of Cold once per day per 10 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

Disadvantages:

- May not wear better than chain mail.

- Takes an extra 15% from fire-induced damage.

 

Magistrat of Azuth

 

Alignments: Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, True Neutral, Lawful Evil

Ability Requirements: Intelligence 13, Wisdom 14

Race: Human

Advantages:

- May wear mage robes.

- May use mage scrolls.

- Casting reduction: the Magistrat's spell casting time is reduced by 1. All spells retain a minimum casting time of 1.

- Spell duration increase: the duration of all non instantaneous spells cast by the priest increases by 1 round for every three experience levels of the priest. For example, a 6th level priest has his spells' durations increased by 2 rounds.

Disadvantages:

- May not wear armor.

 

Doommaster of Beshaba

 

Alignments: Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil

Ability Requirements: Wisdom 10

Advantages:

- May cast Spook once per day per 4 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- May cast Ray of Enfeeblement once per day per 8 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- May cast Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, Chaos Shield and Sphere of Chaos as if they were clerical spells of the appropriate level.

Disadvantages:

- May not wear better than plate mail.

 

Gondsman of Gond

 

Alignments: Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral

Ability Requirements: Dexterity 14, Intelligence 14, Wisdom 14

Advantages:

- Can use crossbows.

- Gains a +2 bonus to Save vs. Rod, Staff, or Wand.

- Open locks: Gondsmen have an aptitude for devices, which includes mechanical locks. They have a 5% chance per level to pick locks.

Disadvantages:

- May not wear better than plate mail.

- May not use a shield.

 

Doomguide of Kelemvor

 

Alignments: Lawful Neutral

Ability Requirements: Constitution 12, Wisdom 14

Advantages:

- Doomguides turn undead at two levels higher than their listed level.

- May cast Hold Undead once per day for every 5 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- Gains a +1 bonus to Save vs. Paralyzation, Poison, and Death Magic.

- Gains a +2 bonus to saving throws vs. the energy drain spell and the level draining attacks of undead. If the attack does not normally allow a saving throw, a saving throw is allowed with a -2 penalty.

Disadvantages:

- May not wear better than chain mail.

- May not cast Animate Dead.

 

Firewalker of Kossuth

 

Alignments: Lawful Neutral, True Neutral, Lawful Evil

Ability Requirements: Constitution 12, Wisdom 14

Advantages:

- The Firewalker is under the effect of the spell Protection From Fire at all times.

- May cast Conjure Fire Elemental once per day per 10 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- May cast Burning Hands, Agannazar's Scorcher, Fireball, Flame Arrow and Delayed Blast Fireball as if they were clerical spells of the appropriate level.

Disadvantages:

- May not wear better than chain mail.

 

Tuneservant of Milil

 

Alignments: Neutral Good, Chaotic Good

Ability Requirements: Intelligence 13, Wisdom 14, Charisma 14

Advantages:

- Has the Bard Song ability.

- May cast Enthrall once per day per 5 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use). This spell works as the wizard spell Dire Charm.  

- May cast Song of Suggestion once per day per 10 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use). This spell works as the wizard spell Domination.

Disadvantages:

- None

 

Dweomerkeeper of Mystra

 

Alignments: Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, Chaotic Neutral

Ability Requirements: Intelligence 14, Wisdom 12

Advantages:

- May cast Remove Magic once per day per 5 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- Gains a +2 bonus to Save vs. Rod, Staff, or Wand and to Save vs. Spell.

- Magic stability: Dweomerkeepers function normally in both magic-dead and wild magic areas.

- May cast wizard summoning spells (Glitterdust, Monster Summoning I, Monster Summoning II, Spider Spawn, Monster Summoning III, Carrion Summons, Invisible Stalker, Wyvern Call, Summon Djinni, Summon Efreeti) as if they were clerical spells. The priest must continue to observe the number of various level spells they can cast each day.

Disadvantages:

- None

 

Cleric of the Red Fellowship of Red Knight

 

Alignments: Lawful Good, Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, True Neutral, Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil

Ability Requirements: Intelligence 13, Wisdom 12

Advantages:

- May cast Detect Illusion once per day per 5 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- Can use bastard swords.

- Is immune to the effects of confusion and feeblemind spells and spell-like affects.

Disadvantages:

- None.

 

Heartwarder of Sune

 

Alignments: Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral

Ability Requirements: Wisdom 12, Charisma 16

Advantages:

- Can use darts.

- May cast Dire Charm once per day per 5 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- May cast Regeneration once per day per 10 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use). This powerful spell enables the priest to imbue 1 creature with the ability to regenerate. This regeneration will heal any wounds and even regenerate lost limbs. The creature affected will regain 3 hit points per second. The effect lasts for 1 round per every 2 levels of the caster or until dispelled. For example, a 14th level priest would regenerate 18 hit points per round for 7 rounds.

Disadvantages:

- None.

 

Malagent of Talona

 

Alignments: Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Evil

Ability Requirements: Constitution 14, Wisdom 14, Charisma 11 or less

Advantages:

- May cast Contagion once per day per 5 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- Gains a +4 bonus to Save vs. Paralyzation, Poison, and Death Magic.

- May coat his weapon in poison once per day per 4 levels. The next hit with that weapon will inject the poison into the target, dealing out 1 damage per second for 24 seconds (3 damage for the first 6 seconds). A saving throw vs. poison limits damage to 12 total.

Disadvantages:

- May not wear better than plate mail.

 

Holy Champion of Torm

 

Alignments: Lawful Good, Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Lawful Neutral

Ability Requirements: Constitution 12, Wisdom 15

Advantages:

- May cast Command Word: Die once per day per 5 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- May cast Iron Skins once per day per 10 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

Disadvantages:

- None

 

Luckbringer of Tymora

 

Alignments: Neutral Good, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral

Ability Requirements: Dexterity 14, Wisdom 15

Advantages:

- The Luckbringer is under the effect of the spell Luck at all times.

- May cast Luck once per day per 5 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- Gains a +1 bonus to saving throws vs. the energy drain spell and the level draining attacks of undead. If the attack does not normally allow a saving throw, a saving throw is allowed with a -4 penalty.

Disadvantages:

- None

 

Holy Justice of Tyr

 

Alignments: Lawful Good, Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral

Ability Requirements: Strength 9, Wisdom 9

Advantages:

- May cast Detect Evil once per day per 5 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- May cast Protection From Evil once per day per 5 levels of the caster (starts at 1st level with one use).

- Bonus +1 to hit and +1 damage with the warhammer.

- Can specialize in warhammer.

Disadvantages:

- None

[Grim Squeaker]

Yeah I think we do need to implement some other disadvantages to the kits.  Probably limiting the spheres of the spells available is a good way to do it.  As long as we don't go OTT with it and end up with only half a spellbook or just a brace of appendices!

[Koson]

If you're limiting the spheres of the spells available it will be very close to blowing the whole domain idea without getting any palpable benefit out of it. Which means getting back to the BG2 way of doing clerical kits by adding bonus domain spells as special abilities to those kits that get them.

 

It would be OK with me, and maybe easier to do, but that's for you to decide (since you're the ones actually doing it) not me.

[BevH]

Cam, is the Silverstar of Selune to be separate from the one we are planning for the sisters?  Or are you and Grim going to work together on this one?

[CamDawg]

We now have enough cleric kits for 18 TCs. Seriously, enough.

 

BG2 will only allow you to pick from a vanilla class and nine kits, so we're way past a functional ceiling for kits. There is one way we could shoehorn in some extras: race-restricted kits. If I'm not mistaken, the kit selection screen comes after race selection, so if we settle on nine available for each race then we could get more kits.

 

Here's a consolidated list of all 25 (!) kit requests so far. Ones marked with stars have clunky item restrictions and therefore are more diffcult to implement, if they're even possible.

 

Auril, Icepriest of*

Azuth, Magistrat of*

Beshaba, Doommaster of*

Gond, Gondsman of*

Helm, Watcher of (2e & 3e)

Ilmater, Painbearer of*

Iyachtu Xvim, Authlim of

Kelemvor, Doomguide of*

Kossuth, Firewalker of*

Lathander, Morninglord of (2e & 3e)

Mask, Demarch of (2e & 3e)*

Mielikki, Needle of*

Milil, Tuneservant of

Mystra, Dweomerkeeper of

Oghma, Lorekeeper of (2e & 3e)*

Red Knight, Cleric of the Red Fellowship of

Selune, Silverstar of (2e & 3e)

Solonor Thelandira, Specialty priest of*

Sune, Heartwarder of

Talona, Malagent of*

Talos, Stormlord of (2e & 3e)

Tempus, Battleguard of (2e & 3e)*

Torm, Holy Champion of

Tymora, Luckbringer of

Tyr, Holy Justice of

 

Out of these, I would lock in four as absolutes: Lathander, Talos, Helm, and Selune. Of the prposed kits, which ones can we restrict by race? Which ones do people want to see?

[CamDawg]

@Bev

I would develop it concurrently with y'all. No need to duplicate work or be internally inconsistent.

[Bri]

Well, of all the kits you have, those are deities that are primarily served by humans (not that they can't have some non-human worshippers).

 

As for the ones to get rid of, partial though I am to the Red Knight, you can disregard her (for example) especially if you have Tempus and Torm in the mix (both are battle gods as it is...)

 

Okay, this may be a different question, but many deities are only served by certain alignments.  If you work it that way, so that only certain kits come up with the proper alignment, that may give you slightly more room as well.

[BevH]

Actually, Gondsman is the golem-like creature created by the Techsmiths of Gond.

 

I agree with Bri that alignment restrictions could be helpful, although alignment is chosen after class.

 

@Cam - just curious and thanks.

[CamDawg]

Yep, alignment restrictions would be ideal, but as Bev mentioned that's selected after class/kit so it's no use for a workaround.

 

I'd rather develop kits that folks are interested in playing, so if you want the Red Knight, then Red Knight it shall be. Unless you're overwhelmingly outvoted.

[Grim Squeaker]

Cam, is the Silverstar of Selune to be separate from the one we are planning for the sisters?  Or are you and Grim going to work together on this one?

I'm hoping we'll be able to use it and package it with our mod (in case you don't have that particular kit installed).