Unearthed Arcana present Tome & Blood: more options for arcane casters

[kjeron]

17 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I'm not surprised, since these spontaneous-casting kits actually cast innate abilities that in turn cast the original spells.  Making targeting work at all was kind of tricky; making it work with that mod is a whole other story.  And I have no idea what that mod is or how it works.  Might need to ask that mod's author...

It just enables the option in baldur.lua.  The mechanic only provides visual feedback based on the projectile of the "base" spell being cast, not any subspells.  There are some vanilla spells that it cannot display for similar reasons as yours.  It also cannot accurately display "cones" that are not 90 degrees (bug).

[Gwaihir]

35 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Can you zip those .itm files (ring08.itm, ring40.itm, wa2dak.itm) and attach them here?

Here you go. I'm using EET.

As for the area of effect feedback, I kind of suspected that it wouldn't be a trivial matter don't bother with it, it's not like we don't know the area of spells by heart, it was just a cool thing to have.

Rings.rar

[Endarire]

@subtledoctor

While we're on this Familiar subject, I would like T&B's familiars to be compatible with the familiar mod options from More Style for Mages.  (NPC Familiars, improved familiar thieving skills/casting ability, and customizable familiar names are the most notable things that T&B's familiars seem to be lacking.)

What would be involved in such a thing?

Thankee!

Edited January 27, 2020 by Endarire

[subtledoctor]

6 hours ago, Endarire said:

I would like T&B's familiars to be compatible with the familiar mod options from More Style for Mages. 

Almost certainly not.  Those components seem (from the description) to be tied to that mod's own 'custom familiar' option.  I suppose "familiars for NPCs" could be compatible, but one mod might destructively change something needed for the other mod.  I don't know how that mod works, so I can't really say.  And even if it was made compatible, you would have NPC familiars that behave differently from Charname's familiar.  (In fact it seems that is the case with MSfM itself...)  Several parts of the TnB familiar mods - imbuing them with spells, and the way their hp bonus works - currently rely on there only being one familiar in the game.  (That may change in the future, but I haven't figured out how to do it differently.)

Basically there seem to be three different familiar-focused mods around these days: TnB's keeps familiars very close to the way the work in vanilla, with a few enhancements around the edges; MSfM is a bit further afield, introducing more race/class characteristics and some light XP-based progression; and WTP Familiars goes all the way and makes them almost full leveled party members.  These are three different visions for how familiars work; it doesn't make sense to combine them.  Choose the one that appeals to you.

[Gwaihir]

I come to disturb you once more to ask about Specialist Mages (EET, TnB 0.8sd45)

I noticed that some passive abilities are not displayed in game in the character screen, namely the enchanter's (immunity from charm and sleep, +1 to saves vs spells for all party members) and the transmuter's (immunity from polymorph and petrification). Is this another case of 'silent working' components, or the effects are actually not there? I'm confused because the abjurist spell shield effect is being displayed correctly, with the icon and in the message box. The conjurer too gets his summon monsters I, II, III.

Also, the kit descriptions from the character creation screen and the record screen differ quite a bit: which features are actually used and which aren't? From testing the kits I can tell that: miminum stats requirements yes, +1 bonus spells per level no, auto gain of all spells of a given school yes, active/passive unique abilities yes, but maybe not correctly displayed for some kits as said above, specialists can cast spells of any school yes.

 

 

[subtledoctor]

28 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

I noticed that some passive abilities are not displayed in game in the character screen, namely the enchanter's (immunity from charm and sleep, +1 to saves vs spells for all party members) and the transmuter's (immunity from polymorph and petrification). Is this another case of 'silent working' components, or the effects are actually not there? I'm confused because the abjurist spell shield effect is being displayed correctly, with the icon and in the message box. The conjurer too gets his summon monsters I, II, III.

I expect the bonuses are working, but there is simply no visual indicator because it would take extra effort to create such an indicator and we were probably tired. 

Something like getting extra known spells is a bit different - obviously when you get them they are their own visual indicator.

28 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

Also, the kit descriptions from the character creation screen and the record screen differ quite a bit: which features are actually used and which aren't?

Hard to say.  When multiple mods alter something like kit abilities, it is quite difficult to patch the kit description in a way that can encompass all of the differences.  Sometimes the description will be changed to reflect a kit's abilities, and then another mod will come along and add something different; the new abilities can be layered on in an additive way, but the kit description will more likely be overwritten, leaving a result that is incomplete.

28 minutes ago, Gwaihir said:

From testing the kits I can tell that: miminum stats requirements yes, +1 bonus spells per level no, auto gain of all spells of a given school yes, active/passive unique abilities yes, but maybe not correctly displayed for some kits as said above, specialists can cast spells of any school yes.

I don't understand the "+1 bonus spells per level no."  This mod does not touch that to my knowledge, it is hard-coded.  All specialists have +1 spells per level, period, end of story.

[Gwaihir]

34 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I don't understand the "+1 bonus spells per level no.

My bad

 

37 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

When multiple mods alter something like kit abilities

The only ones I have are TnB, FnP, MnG. Basically it seems that the record screen description is for the vanilla specialists (are minimum stats requirements a vanilla thing?)

Spoiler

Anyway, no big deal, just an inconsistency .

 

52 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I expect the bonuses are working, but there is simply no visual indicator because it would take extra effort to create such an indicator and we were probably tired.

If you say everything works, great. The poor enchanter is going to be sad because he got nothing to show off while the illusionist gets his shiny non-detection icon 

Seriously, sorry to be such a pain, just wanted to be sure. Thank you very much for your efforts.

[subtledoctor]

The required stats thing is automatic - the EE engine reads it from a 2da file and automatically adds it to the kit description text. Has nothing to do with mods. (Unless they alter the stat requirements in that 2da table, of course.)

I’m not sure whether the Enchanter save bonus is visible on allies’ character sheets... we could make it display a portrait icon, but the question is which portrait icon (if any) would communicate that information without being confusing.

[Gwaihir]

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

I’m not sure whether the Enchanter save bonus is visible on allies’ character sheets

It's not, at least for me.

Maybe a recolored 'minor globe of invulnerability' icon?

 

[subtledoctor]

Just now, Gwaihir said:

It's not, at least for me.

I forget what kind of bonus it is. If it is for saves vs. spells, you should see something like “save vs. Spells: 14 (-2)” where it showed “(-1)” before the enchanter joined the party. 

If it is a bonus to saves vs. Enchantment spells, then I don’t think the engine displays that. You would see it in the combat log, if you pay attention to the calculations. 

[Endarire]

@subtledoctor
Since I intend to use T&B's familiars on an EET game, should I keep waiting for a fix?  If so, where will the patched version be?

[subtledoctor]

27 minutes ago, Endarire said:

Since I intend to use T&B's familiars on an EET game, should I keep waiting for a fix?  If so, where will the patched version be?

No idea.  Until @K4thos gives some indication of precisely whatand why EET does with that familiar script (like, why does a mod that combines the BG1/SoD/BG2 campaigns need to add a script to restrict familiar summoning anyway??), then I have no idea how to address the issue.

[Gwaihir]

9 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

I forget what kind of bonus it is. If it is for saves vs. spells, you should see something like “save vs. Spells: 14 (-2)” where it showed “(-1)” before the enchanter joined the party. 

It is, and on further inspection it actually works. For some reason, when traveling to an area there's a brief moment when all ST bonuses are not shown; after walking a bit, they return to normal. Also, having 9 Int with SoB means (+1) to those saves, which then the enchanter bonus nullifies, so no modifier is shown at all, and that threw me off as well. As usual I was trigger-happy with my report rifle.

The only missing things then are those passive indicators. It would be cool to have them included in future updates, but right now knowing that they work is enough.

[Endarire]

@subtledoctor
My guess for EET is that because familiars are treated differently in BG1 & BG2, EET modifies that code somehow to account for each game's stats.

[subtledoctor]

Hmp.  There's got to be better ways to do that...