Sword Coast Stratagems v34 (edit: 34.3) now available

[Connelly]

1 hour ago, harticus33 said:

@Connelly you don't happen to remember the lines referencing Letec? If possible, I'd like to try; I haven't started the game yet but I did just install PnP Fiends successfully over SCS without errors (though I know that doesn't mean it necessarily work out well).

Not really, but the code affecting him is pretty well documented. Finding the lines or blocks with comments mentioning the guy should be easy, they tend to be somewhat isolated from other creatures, then you can comment them all out, and after install use the console to blaze through the quest and check that Aec' isn't invincible.

[boof]

Another observation that I've had over the last year or so of playing and watching people play.
I've noticed when watching the vanilla game, enemy spell casters will often continue casting even though they take an instance or two of damage mid cast.
I don't think I can remember one time with SCS that I've noticed a spell caster continue their spell after taking damage.
I came back to this game after a loooong time not playing and went straight into SCS, so I don't remember the exact spell casting failure mechanics of the vanilla game, but if SCS has changed something to make spell interruption this reliable, then in my opinion that's been a change for the worse.

Edited November 20, 2023 by boof

[Graion Dilach]

SCS doesn't change the concentration logic. SR can, (notsure if concentration changes were ported to SRR) and Skills and Abilities certainly does.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Graion Dilach

[InKal]

I have both SCS and Sills&Abi installed and enemy casters have quite a high chance to finish casting when taking heavy damage, something like almost 50% chance.

Edited November 21, 2023 by InKal

[Thacobell]

There's also that fun engine bug where a caster can be un-interruptible is they are facing juuuust the right way.

[boof]

Weird, I've played a ton of the game over the last year and like I said, haven't seen a caster complete a spell through damage once.
Doubt any of my other tweak mods mess with it.
https://pastebin.com/uhcPmK5s

[subtledoctor]

5 hours ago, Thacobell said:

There's also that fun engine bug where a caster can be un-interruptible is they are facing juuuust the right way.

Between this and the fact that ~1/3 of AI casters use use ForceSpell() in their scripts, the question of whether you will be able to interrupt a caster is fairly unanswerable. Add to this the fact that ForceSpell() scripts bypass Miscast Magic. And the fact that concentration in busted in EEv2.6 (more likely to be interrupted if you take less damage)… it’s a big mess. 

I’ve experimented with inserting a full replacement system for concentration. I had some success inserting zero-duration self-targeted Silence effects as casting features in all spells, gated behind a spellstate, and then reducing all casting times to 0 to sidestep the existing interruption system. Then you can do interesting things like give weapons a % chance to apply the spellstate after each hit, for some amount of seconds (which can vary by weapon), give interruption bonuses to Wizard Slayers, make items and spells that make the caster more resistant to disruption, etc. Lots of possibilities… but it would be a major endeavor and require lots of fiddling and lots of testing and lots of compatibility concerns. 

[DavidW]

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

~1/3 of AI casters use use ForceSpell() in their scripts

Not in my AI.

[morpheus562]

In Tactics Remix I typically avoid ForceSpell() and instead prefer Spell() and SpellNoDec().

[polytope]

Vanilla game AI has a lot more casters ForceSpell(). Many priests do this in their heals, and there are some random unique examples like Mekrath force-casting a Death Spell before reverting to a more typical mage script.

ForceSpell() actions can be interrupted either by killing the caster before the spell is complete (obviously), or some disabling effects like hold and stun will delay it for the duration (meaning you can probably kill them). Any new action will also disrupt the casting, that is to say fear which causes the caster to move from their current position ends the spell (but repulsion-type effects like wing buffets or the ring of the ram don't, neither does Teleport Field), confusion is a toss-up as they'll sometimes move, charming the spellcaster and ordering them somewhere also breaks even force casting.

[subtledoctor]

13 hours ago, DavidW said:

Not in my AI.

Right, but even with SCS installed, aten’t there still casters in the game that don’t use SCS scripts? (Specifically thinking of games with lots of mods installed - not just vanilla game + SCS)

Plus, SCS itself draws a line between magic spells and magic abilities  and makes the latter uninterruptible, based at least in part on whether the thing doing the magic has a humanoid form. (Not my favorite part of this mod.) I think players, who likely have experience with the non-SCS mishmash and now install mods by different authors with different ideas, implementing rules that are not always perfectly articulated, are not likely the have the clearest sense of what tactics will work when. Which IMO, in a game like this, is a consideration of paramount importance. 

I think ideally all magic would be equally interruptible according to a consistent rule, full stop. (And optional concentration rules that actually work would be nice, and adjusting that would be the ideal vector for making certain creatures innately less interruptible.) But even if we achieved this, the which-way-are-they-facing bug would still ruin it. It’s a sad state of affairs. 

10 hours ago, polytope said:

ForceSpell() actions can be interrupted either by killing the caster before the spell is complete (obviously), or … hold and stun will delay it … Any new action will also disrupt the casting, … fear which causes the caster to move … charming the spellcaster and ordering them somewhere

Is this exhaustive? Os there any source to actually find what can frustrate ForceSpell()? Or is it really limited only to injecting something else into the action queue, end of story? 

Edited November 22, 2023 by subtledoctor

[DavidW]

I'll close this now that v35 is out. Many thanks to everyone who reported bugs; double thanks to people who fixed them for me!