What people find boring in Chateau Irenicus

[Smoketest]

Just wanted to know what you think makes playing through the Irenicus Dungeon at the beginning to SoA so much boring, that Dungeon-Be-Gone has become one the most favourite mods out there.

The spawned goblins seem out of place, so I'd get rid of them. Given that the Shadow Thieves have been conducting an invasion, the place shouldn't be packed with creatures, aside from the few ST vs. NPC occurrences that are already in place.

 

I agree that the Fed-Ex quest involving the Genie and the default +2 Sword of Chaos is wearisome, and the entire plane of air area seems like an afterthought.

 

It'd be nice if Imoen would remember the spells you can have her learn while in the dungeon, but alas, Bioware decided to give her multiple CRE files throughout the game, so any changes (spells, colors) made to her at the start are lost forever.

 

Jaheira throws a fit, "I know more than anyone what can and cannot be raised... blah blah blah", if you suggest resurrecting Khalid, so there's no chance of gaining another party member that way. (His body wasn't completely destroyed so there should be a chance.) Dynaheir is referred to by Minsc, but can't be found anywhere; yet another lost opportunity. For that matter, whoever was in your party in BG1, assuming you're importing, is lost forever and replaced by the same three NPCs every time.

 

On the matter of Jaheira, if you made her mad to the point where she left or vowed there'd be violence if she saw you again, a JaheiraHunt variable would be set. This seems to hint that at some point in the game, similar to a reputation trap or a Dermin visit, Jaheira would drop in on the party and, perhaps after a few words, attack Charname. Alas, this idea seems to have been forgotten after her initial DLG was written.

 

Frennedan appears to be there for BG1 players, as he becomes a doppelganger before attacking the party, but his DLG file suggests his final form was to be a rakshasa. This option was disabled, and could provide a bit more challenge if enabled.

 

Those are my random thoughts on the matter. I don't have the problem of restarting constantly, so none of this has driven me to use a mod like DBG. I'd rather see what can be done to improve an area than simply skip over it.

[Galactygon]

Making the area more random regarding treasures, creatures, etc. (and perhaps even quests) sounds like a good start to me. Every time you restart the game, there would be something different about the areas. I'd also like to see a time limit here. Aren't you escaping after all (from someone powerful)? It'd be interesting if you truly had to RUN from Irenicus rather than him as being in the background...

 

And perhaps have the option of him attempting to recapture you and constantly cast "locate person" to locate you and teleport after you. This would make the spell, nondetection have a very interesting twist.

 

-Galactygon

[khayman]

I am totally against the time limit, unless it proves to be a reasonable one.

[Raumoheru]

ive played this game so many freakin times i cant stand starting over and having to do that boring thing again

 

i think it is a great mod and thank whoever made it

 

"and remember love all bards, unless they are that Haer'Dalis jackass"

[SimDing0]

Jaheira throws a fit, "I know more than anyone what can and cannot be raised... blah blah blah", if you suggest resurrecting Khalid, so there's no chance of gaining another party member that way.  (His body wasn't completely destroyed so there should be a chance.)

I wonder why her word physically prevents you from attempting it.

[Pekka]

A reasonable time limit for the dungeon would be nice, it would make the whole thing much more hectic and desperate - you ARE trying to escape from Irenicus, so there's no reason to spend days and days camping in the hallways. This is actually pretty much the same thing as with Imoen and Spellhold: I've always thought there should be a time limit for rescuing her - if you spend months wandering around Amn and don't rush to save her, she should be physically and mentally devastated when you finally find her.

 

I know that many people hate time limits in games, so in a mod these should of course be entirely optional.

[Mindflayer]

Well TDD adds bugbears to the place...

Those sure are tough bugbears!!! I remember first time I played it, it striked me weird hobgoblins could resist some much damage and kill party members like crazy. Though, somehow, they didn't persuade as BugBears...

[NiGHTMARE]

I made a mod a while ago which adds in the proper Bugbear animations from IWD2. I might WeiDU it up sometime.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Suggestions.

 

1. An easy way out for those who want it. That portal by the cages could lead out and let the whole mess be skipped ... without the treasure & XP gain by actually doing the rest of the dungeon though.

 

2. No goblins. Have more human and duergar foes. I find it silly that the big I has human servants in jars but not wandering about. Better random treasure too. Make this not so hard as tactics. If possible randomize foes so that it is different every time.

 

3. Get rid of the plane or air & find a new way to get the Sword of Chaos to the PC.

 

4. Give the PC an option to ‘join’ with the (shadow thief) attackers without letting him in on who they are. Maybe create an extra level to be cleared if the PC joins them and wishes to do so. Slightly tougher foes on this level, like a golem or three, and maybe an new item or two.

 

5. Have a ‘clone’ of Jon that can be fought ... one that is about 15th level at best. Have him on the extra level from step 4 if possible.

 

6. Have a foreshadowing of Imoen’s magic missile outburst.

 

7. Add at least one new NPC somewhere in CI. An elf who was hunting big I and captured? A clone with more free will than Jon intended? A shadow thief spy? Lots of possibilities here.

 

8. Allow a “Return to Chateau Irenicus†where the PC can make this place into a stronghold if they totally cleared it out.

[Andyr]

Those are some good ideas.

[SimDing0]

1. Dungeon-be-Gone. ;)

 

2. Someone's gonna have to decide what sort of minions he uses. It's weird there being one vampire, one doppleganger, etc.

 

3. I'm undecided here. The plane of air is fairly random, admittedly.

 

4. Trying to explain that you're not the bad guy is a good idea, yes.

 

5. Why?

 

6. How would you suggest foreshadowing it?

 

7. I hope this isn't going to be another "EYE PLAN TO AD 24 NEW NPCS OK???" mod.

 

8. Stuff's collapsing when you leave it.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

1. Not quite. DBG gives you the items & XP. This would not. An important difference.

 

5. Why not? The area lacks a ‘finishing’ battle. This could plug that hole. Besides it’s fun to beat up on Jon-boy.

 

6. Not decided. A dialogue is the easiest choice. Maybe a scene when she tries to remove the belt or a more complex one that, via script checks to see if she has cast magic missile before a battle & then have her comment that she almost cast it again and how odd it was because she knew that she didn’t have the spell memorized but sort of felt like she could cast it.

 

7. Agreed. However 1 or 2 would be a nice bonus. Strictly optional IMO.

 

8. The Dryad’s nut quest would be pretty pointless if they were crushed in a collapse. It seems to me like the only part that falls in is the second level. The first says intact....

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Just to expand on what I’ve posted above one of the points of my suggestions is to decrease the linear nature of CI.

 

One could exit right off the bat, fight through the shadow thieves and exit on level two, or clear the whole place and fight with the thieves in a third level that includes a ‘boss’ type battle. That gives three very different ways to resolve CI and thus make the whole more fun IMO.

[SimDing0]

1.  Not quite.  DBG gives you the items & XP.  This would not.  An important difference.

 

5.  Why not?  The area lacks a ‘finishing’ battle.  This could plug that hole.  Besides it’s fun to beat up on Jon-boy.

 

6.  Not decided.  A dialogue is the easiest choice.  Maybe a scene when she tries to remove the belt or a more complex one that, via script checks to see if she has cast magic missile before a battle & then have her comment that she almost cast it again and how odd it was because she knew that she didn’t have the spell memorized but sort of felt like she could cast it.

 

7.  Agreed.  However 1 or 2 would be a nice bonus.  Strictly optional IMO.

 

8.  The Dryad’s nut quest would be pretty pointless if they were crushed in a collapse.  It seems to me like the only part that falls in is the second level.  The first says intact....

1. From a game balance perspective. Story-wise, why should you be able to get out suddenly and easily?

 

5. Why does it need a finishing battle? It's the intro to the game, not the end of it. And again, from a story perspective, why? Jon doesn't clone himself...

 

6. I think it's rather excessive to cover up what is effectively Bioware sucking. She'd probably have used Bhaalpowers if they hadn't made up the plot as they went along.

 

7. Including NPCs as "a nice bonus" is a way to guarantee a sucky result. There's a reason that NPCs are mods on their own.

 

8. So... how do you get back there? And as an interesting aside... is the dungeon's main entrance meant to be the explodified bit of Waukeen's Promenade? That doesn't really work.

[icelus]

8. So... how do you get back there? And as an interesting aside... is the dungeon's main entrance meant to be the explodified bit of Waukeen's Promenade? That doesn't really work.

Yes, it is interesting. It is also odd that Athkatla, a city of riches, can't seem to fund the reconstruction of the Promenade. If someone wanted to put in the work, couldn't it be handled just like the Temple Ruins exterior map? Perhaps set a timer after leaving the Promenade the first time and having a new, fixed area appear after a given time. Or, have it fixed after you emerge from the Underdark. I know Lady Alustriel took the the Promenade scene and rotated it--fixing the damaged area, IIRC. I'm not sure how useful the .bmp would be, though.