Familiars (Workroom)

[Duckfeet]

My 2 cents on this topic:

 

The goal is to have the familiar take a more active role instead of sitting in the backpack all the time. It basically should be a "flavor" thing; having your little cat with you during your world-destroying battles should be superficially cute/interesting/enjoyable, not a crucial strategic factor.

 

The general approach to do this is to make the familiar a modest perk, with modest drawbacks. I'm thinking no spells beyond 2nd level, no real physical damage output (1d4 damage, thac0 advancement as per mage), minor caster HP loss on death (the spell interruption for that round will be penalty enough).

 

Ideally the following should be in place but are probbaly infeasible to script:

- shared protections: You and your pet share your stoneskins, Protection from foo, spell traps, etc. Dispelling them on one dispells them on the other.

- range extension: You can cast spells that originate from your familiar (as if the familiar casts them). The spell happens during your initiative round and does not count towards the familiar's actions that round.

[Dakk]

I'll obviously be around (for hotfixes and discussions), but my modding time will be very limited, and I'll probably release few "parts" of KR before starting to work on SR v4.

Oh, KR r00lz!

 

I've so many projects to work on and so little time...

And that's why we adore you

 

EDIT: Agreed though that finally 'fixing' familiars would be really great. Perchance we could get away with some constructive discussions while we wait for a code-slot to open up?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Just so Demivrgvs can copy more code from aVENGER, I'll express my request that he should use the code used for this on the Imp familiar in aTweaks.

[Duckfeet]

If levelling up the familiar with the caster is not an option, there should at least be a different familiar for the BG1 part of the game. The BG2 familiars totally stomp over anything that has less than 5HD.

[Demivrgvs]

If levelling up the familiar with the caster is not an option, there should at least be a different familiar for the BG1 part of the game. The BG2 familiars totally stomp over anything that has less than 5HD.

Indeed...I found a solution to make them lvl up properly and actually started to work on a couple of them, but then I had to temporary abandon the project because it was outstandingly time consuming and I wanted to do other things. Sooner or later I'd like to resume that work because it has A LOT of potential. Till then, you have to force yourself to not use those familiars, because they were planned for BG2 only.

 

I thought for v3 to temporary disable the spell on character creation screen (and sorcerer lvl up screen) to make sure you can't summon then in BG1 (because you don't have a scroll)...but for some reason I didn't do that. Should I do that in a hotfix?

 

P.S If you ask me this spell shouldn't even belong to a scroll...it should be an "innate ability".

[Duckfeet]

I thought for v3 to temporary disable the spell on character creation screen (and sorcerer lvl up screen) to make sure you can't summon then in BG1 (because you don't have a scroll)...but for some reason I didn't do that. Should I do that in a hotfix?

 

Eh, dunno. I like it on principle but seems like some effort for not much payoff?

 

On the other hand, I have a "mostly legit" solo character who's halfway to Nashkell. Because of this post, I just realised I was actually cheating like a bastard because I use the familiar to tank all the time. Time to restart....

[Jarno Mikkola]

P.S If you ask me this spell shouldn't even belong to a scroll...it should be an "innate ability".

But at which level? Cause you always could do a quick and dirty clabma01-09.2da overwrite if you feel like it, as those files have a reference in the Kitlist.2da file... if my assumption is right, yes it needs a heavy testing.

And yes, you might be interested that StrixO has made all the familiars choosable in this mod.

[yarpen]

In 3rd edition it's wizard's ability at 1st level. But having this ability memorised for whole game?

[Jarno Mikkola]

In 3rd edition it's wizard's ability at 1st level. But having this ability memorized for whole game?

Yeah, but when thinking about the BG2 balanced Familiars, it might be better somewhere at 7th or so level, this is of course until Demivrgvs makes his upgrade to the spell...

[yarpen]

Riiight sir. I'd vote then for 9th level.

[StrixO]

I've tweaked familiars in my own game off an on, and some of my favorite additions were:

 

-It immediately costs the mage 1 point of CON to summon a familiar. No hit point bonuses for summoning. If the familiar dies, the mage only suffers a temporary loss of hit points (i.e. damage). I like the idea of a temporary stun effect, or a reduction of thac0, movement rate, physical stats, etc., or even a temporary wild magic surge effect.

 

-I've enjoyed giving good familiars buffing (clerical) type spells, the evil debuffing spells (arcane), and the neutral I like to give some custom innate abilities, like true sight (for the xxx25 version), non-dection, farsight, improved thieving skills, etc.

 

-I played around with an innate ability to allow a familiar to "teleport" to the charname's backpack, in case it gets into a jam. It made me a little more willing to let it outside (of the backpack) to play. I thought it would be more reasonable to give that innate ability to charname (the ability to recall the familiar at will), but I could never get the effect to work as I intended.

[Salk]

I've tweaked familiars in my own game off an on, and some of my favorite additions were:

 

-It immediately costs the mage 1 point of CON to summon a familiar. No hit point bonuses for summoning. If the familiar dies, the mage only suffers a temporary loss of hit points (i.e. damage). I like the idea of a temporary stun effect, or a reduction of thac0, movement rate, physical stats, etc., or even a temporary wild magic surge effect.

 

-I've enjoyed giving good familiars buffing (clerical) type spells, the evil debuffing spells (arcane), and the neutral I like to give some custom innate abilities, like true sight (for the xxx25 version), non-dection, farsight, improved thieving skills, etc.

 

-I played around with an innate ability to allow a familiar to "teleport" to the charname's backpack, in case it gets into a jam. It made me a little more willing to let it outside (of the backpack) to play. I thought it would be more reasonable to give that innate ability to charname (the ability to recall the familiar at will), but I could never get the effect to work as I intended.

 

Familiars is a subject very close to my heart (Nythrun was working on a familiar mod for me before she disappeared) so I give you my feedback about your changes:

 

- The 1 point of Constitution loss shouldn't be a cost for the initial casting. Instead, the Constitution loss, together with the loss of Hit Points and a save vs death check based on Constitution (shock) should happen at familiar's death and be temporary, although long enough to represent a real discomfort (I would enforce a one week of game time's grief). After that period of time has gone, a new familiar could be summoned. I think also that the Familiar should grant a small increase of Hit Points for the caster and level up together with the caster, gaining more Hit Points

 

- I am not so fond of your custom division of spells arsenal based on the familiar's alignment. In my opinion it should rather reflect the familair PnP's traits and characteristics

 

- The teleport back to backpack idea is a welcome one. Rabain has already implemented it in his own familiar revision mod

 

If you are interested in coding up a new, alternate version of the Find Familiar spell with me, I'd love to start a collaboration.

[Salk]

After over two years since Demi started this topic, we can finally resume work on the revised Find Familiar spell!

[Pacek]

Does this mean NPCs will finally be able to cast Find Familiar?

[Salk]

Does this mean NPCs will finally be able to cast Find Familiar?

 

I certainly hope not.