Kit Revisions (Paladins)

[Jarno Mikkola]

Well. Beastmaster could get innates instead (summonings and area-buffs like...ummm..some kind of Roar?). I don't see BM as a spellcaster.

Erhm, or those all can be done with kit specific spells ! As the fact is, the Innate spells are not the same as the normal spells.

 

Divine Spellcasting

Mike is rightfully concerned about me removing spellcasting abilities from pretty much all paladin and ranger kits (the only kits that might still get them in my eyes are the Undead Hunter, the Stalker, and to a lesser extent the Beastmaster) and I wanted to know what most of you think on this matter.

 

So, do you think I should keep spellcasting abilities? Are they a must for a particular kit?

Well, this of course depends on what they get in return...

[Grammarsalad]

I'm not fond of paladin and (especially) ranger casting.

 

Crazy idea: why don't you give them unique spells memorizable and castable in the normal way that fit the paladin motif? they would get "spells"from 1st level but they would be things like smite, maybe lay on hands, and other "channel divinity"like powers.

 

Edit: I see a lot of potential in this "change spell"trick of yours

[Jarno Mikkola]

Crazy idea:

It's not crazy at all.

[kreso]

I'd prefer stuff that is "unique" to specific kits to remain under "special abilities" button. Making all these spells and customized spellbooks for each kit is imo too much work for too little gain.

[Kalindor]

I cast my vote for the following:

Spellcasting for True Paladin and maybe Undead Hunter.

No spellcasting for Rangers, provided you can find suitable compensation.

Special abilities limited to special ability button, not shared in a pool.

[Lawlight]

I'd vote for...

...removing spellcasting for Rangers altogether and give them proper special abilities,

...spellcasting (True Paladin & Undead Hunter only) & pool (Divine Power as a resource system) for Paladins

[Grammarsalad]

I'm fine with paladin casting--undead hunter too. I'm neutral about how you implement specials

 

Edit: not that I don't like my idea re "casting/divine channeling

 

If we're voting on rangers here I'd like to see them spell free (obviously if they get something good for it). Of course, I'd like to be able to make evil rangers...

 

on topic: lawful neutral and neutral good pallys would be cool

[Grammarsalad]

Ok. I've been playing with a true paladin for a bit (again, with the Kensai and WS along with a thief/mage, sorcerer and cleric/mage.)

 

Of the three, this one seems to be the least 'fun'. Perhaps its because I haven't run into a large number of evil enemies but the Kensai seems to outshine him in those big, tense fights. It would be nice if there was a little more 'omph' behind those smites. My Kensai is splattering everybody and he's...just not.

[kreso]

Of the three, this one seems to be the least 'fun'.

That's just because we're all spoiled by fighter kits

 

Perhaps its because I haven't run into a large number of evil enemies but the Kensai seems to outshine him in those big, tense fights. It would be nice if there was a little more 'omph' behind those smites. My Kensai is splattering everybody and he's...just not.

Paladin really needs levels. If you have SR installed, you will find even level 1 spells very useful (Bless, Armor of Faith for example). He's tanky as well, right?

[Grammarsalad]

...

Paladin really needs levels. If you have SR installed, you will find even level 1 spells very useful (Bless, Armor of Faith for example). He's tanky as well, right?

 

of course I have sr installed!

 

He is tanky, yes. actually, so is the kensai (just stay clear of those bows!)

 

I think he could use more--perhaps one more die--for those first two levels. Whether the opponent was evil or not if I needed to take down an opponent quickly,i would always prefer to send the kensai.

 

But yeah, those fighters are really shaping up aren't they?

 

[Demivrgvs]

I'd like to point out that it's actually within my design goals to have paladins work as tanks, even better than any other class, to give them a slightly distinct role. They have heavy armors and shields, best saves in the game (only the Monk rivals them, and WS against arcane casters), immunities, and fast Lay on Hands to keep them up.

 

I'm really fine with the Kensai (or any other warrior for that matter) looking much better offensively, and keep in mind that while features like +2 to all saves and immunity to fear might not play a big role in many common BG1 encounters, they truly are a godsend on certain fights.

 

That being said, yeah, fighters have been shaped up much more since their release while paladins aren't even fully released.

 

Speaking of which, for some reason I could not access to G3 yesterday after dinner (Mike too had the same problem), else I would have released both Cavalier and Inquisitor. Undead Hunter is under construction again because Arda and Mike managed to convince me keeping his spellcasting abilities, and now I'm wondering if I can or want to give him at least one unique spell at each level:

- 1st lvl spell: Sunscorch (not sure), or Magical Stone (True Paladin doesn't get it in PnP, Hunter of the Dead does)

- 2nd lvl spell: Halt Undead (it should be 3rd lvl, but I have no better option)

- 3rd lvl spell: Undead Bane Weapon

- 4th lvl spell: Disrupting Weapon

[kreso]

I could also not access G3, nor Spellhold Studios....weird.

Undead Hunter is under construction again because Arda and Mike managed to convince me keeping his spellcasting abilities, and now I'm wondering if I can or want to give him at least one unique spell at each level:

- 1st lvl spell: Sunscorch (not sure), or Magical Stone (True Paladin doesn't get it in PnP, Hunter of the Dead does)

- 2nd lvl spell: Halt Undead (it should be 3rd lvl, but I have no better option)

- 3rd lvl spell: Undead Bane Weapon

- 4th lvl spell: Disrupting Weapon

I'd say Magical Stone....Sunscorch seems too much for me "Lathander-like" . And for some reason, I don't see UH as someone spending too much time in sun

Halt Undead I actually never used.

Undead Bane and Disrupting Weapons - am not sure...I installed PnP Undead from aTweaks, it does make them more powerful (auras etc) and will see if this will be of use. I fear these come too late to be of use.

Otoh, I'm not very convinced UH should cast spells. Maybe some other special abilities, but I wouldn't give him a spellbook.

[Kalindor]

I am fine with UH casting spells, but Bane Weapon and Disrupting Weapon sound more like special abilities than spells (unless they create a magical weapon).

[Demivrgvs]

Undead Hunter

I'm not very convinced UH should cast spells. Maybe some other special abilities, but I wouldn't give him a spellbook.

I'm still comparing the two solutions. The point Arda and Mike used to convince me to at least try keeping the spellbook is that while I personally dislike paladins getting spellbooks, other players may actually expect and love it.

 

Now I'm trying to see if I can keep Divine Spellcasting for this class and still manage to make it feel unique rather than just a True Paladin with slightly different immunities and 3-4 additional anti-undead spells. Right now, I feel like I'm failing.

 

I am fine with UH casting spells, but Bane Weapon and Disrupting Weapon sound more like special abilities than spells (unless they create a magical weapon).

They are PnP spells available to Hunter of the Dead PrC. They don't create a new weapon, but they can enchant any weapon, aka you can potentially use these spells on allies.

[kreso]

Undead Hunter

......make it feel unique rather than just a True Paladin with slightly different immunities and 3-4 additional anti-undead spells

Don't want to rub more salt, but yes, this kit is basically True Paladin with changed immunities if you keep it that way. I'm still in favour of expanding the whole concept (i.e. Demons as well).