SR Revised V1.3.900 (2022 August 8th)

[FixTesteR]

Is there a way to remove a Polymorph squirrel effect with SR/R, now that there's no vanilla Dispel Magic?

Edited August 16, 2022 by FixTesteR

[Bartimaeus]

7 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

Is there a way to remove a Polymorph squirrel effect with SR/R, now that there's no vanilla Dispel Magic?

I would assume Break Enchantment would work in SR; SRR has both Dispel Magic and Remove Magic.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[FixTesteR]

Hi @Bartimaeus! I just tested my SR installation of PfMW, and it also blocks normal weapons. Would you be so kind as to check the spell file for me? Of course, I don't know which filename that would be Thanks... Are you using NI to find and correct errors in spell files? Are they easy to spot?

Are the makers of SR still active? I've found a number of typos in spell descriptions.

Also, quick question. Is Dispel Magic able to remove every magical effect accross the board? Except those that aren't dispellable. Meaning spell, combat, and specific protections, all in one swoop?

Edited August 19, 2022 by FixTesteR

[subtledoctor]

4 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

Are the makers of SR still active? I've found a number of typos in spell descriptions.

There is a feedback thread and a thread specifically for v4b18. Bugs have been getting fixed and the release of beta 19 is imminent. (I think?) Mention anything you see!

EDIT - PWIW in my current game with SRv4b19, PfMW only protects from enchantment levels 1 through 6 - it does not have any protection from normal weapons.

Edited August 19, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Bartimaeus]

5 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

Are the makers of SR still active? I've found a number of typos in spell descriptions.

Technically...subtledoctor, grodrigues, and I are all supposed to be the maintainers of the official version of Spell Revisions, but grodrigues was the primary maintainer and I think SD and I were both okay with that. But there have been communication issues between here and GitHub that have made getting out a release to fix a number of things more lengthy than initially envisioned (I believe the word "imminent" has been used for probably over twelve months now?). Personally, I'm not really sure what else needs to be done, and I feel like SD and I are in the awkward spot of not really knowing how to finish it without grodrigues, who was putting it all together, giving it the final greenlight, hence why we're currently in limbo with it. But as SD said, if you're reporting actual bugs about SR and not SRR, it would probably make more sense to report them where SD linked...however, I do specifically recall the issue with Protection from Magical Weapons having already been fixed in the latest repository version of SR, so it is unnecessary to report it, I think.

5 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

Also, quick question. Is Dispel Magic able to remove every magical effect accross the board? Except those that aren't dispellable. Meaning spell, combat, and specific protections, all in one swoop?

Spell protections aren't typically dispelled by Dispel Magic (with the odd exception of M/GoI in normal SR?), but combat and specific protections along with most everything else should be, whether it's the regeneration spells, Luck, Flame Sword et al.

5 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

Hi @Bartimaeus! I just tested my SR installation of PfMW, and it also blocks normal weapons. Would you be so kind as to check the spell file for me? Of course, I don't know which filename that would be Thanks... Are you using NI to find and correct errors in spell files? Are they easy to spot?

PfMW is spwi611.spl.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[FixTesteR]

Sorry, I truly thought I replied here but it seems my post was kind of lost.

Anyway, I died in my no-reload playthrough, and will be making a new installation with updated SR, and possibly some SRR! Does the Mod Installation Tool recognize the latest versions? I mean, SR's corrections are still not official, that's why I'm asking ... Maybe MIT won't want to install the beta version. Also, what if I only want some specific spells to come from SRR while the rest are SR? Do I do it manually after the megamod install?

I realized that spell protections don't really protect against Vitriolic Sphere, as it does a splash effect. I'm thinking that maybe GoI would stop it but I haven't tested it. That fact makes VS a very potent and useful spell. I was able to interrupt Irenicus himself about 3 times if not more with a repeated VS.

Edited August 24, 2022 by FixTesteR

[Bartimaeus]

10 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

I realized that spell protections don't really protect against Vitriolic Sphere, as it does a splash effect. I'm thinking that maybe GoI would stop it but I haven't tested it. That fact makes VS a very potent and useful spell. I was able to interrupt Irenicus himself about 3 times if not more with a repeated VS.

The only area of effect spells which spell deflection spells like Spell Trap et al. shouldn't protect against are "stationary" ones that stick around in a given area, e.g. Cloudkill, Web, Sphere of Chaos, Teleport Field, and so on (and this is due to a technical limitation; every time one of those stationary spells "tick", they would drain charges equal to whatever level of spell they are...so a single Cloudkill spell could drain ~50 levels of Spell Trap, which would obviously exhaust Spell Deflection after just a few ticks). As such, Vitriolic Sphere should be protected against...in SRR, at least. Subtledoctor is the one who has implemented the latest official version of that component, and I'm not going to touch it due to our differences of opinion in how it should be handled; I primarily maintain SRR, not SR.

10 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

Does the Mod Installation Tool

Sorry, I have no idea; zero experience with any of the automated tools, so I don't know if they do or do not even include SRR as an option. SRR is intended for people who people who specifically seek it out and know what they're installing, not people just casually installing SR expecting it to be the same as it's always been, so overall I am not too concerned. SRR will not ever become the official version due to a number of concerns both ideological and practical in nature, so if people are going to install it, I want them to be aware that they're installing it and never get it confused with the original SR.

10 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

Also, what if I only want some specific spells to come from SRR while the rest are SR? Do I do it manually after the megamod install?

SRR replaces the entire official SR package: you do not install SR and then SRR, you only install SRR. Unless you're only trying to revert maybe a couple of spells back to their original SR versions, it would probably be too much trouble. Though I'd be curious as to what somebody would want to revert, particularly since most of my design changes have primarily concerned strengthening weaker spells.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[FixTesteR]

33 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

most of my design changes have primarily concerned strengthening weaker spells.

I'm in the middle of mod selection, and will check SRR, too. Strengthening weaker spells sounds like a great idea. If I opt for SRR, do I do it after the megamod installation? Or can I just copy some spell files in specific folders?

[Bartimaeus]

4 minutes ago, FixTesteR said:

I'm in the middle of mod selection, and will check SRR, too. Strengthening weaker spells sounds like a great idea. If I opt for SRR, do I do it after the megamod installation? Or can I just copy some spell files in specific folders?

Are you referring to install order, or when you should extract SRR? If the latter, it would be anytime past the point of when SR has been extracted but before it's installed. If the former, I'm...not sure? SRR should be installed at the same point that SR would be installed, which is probably beyond when other content (items, spells, creatures, areas) mods are installed, but certainly not at the end.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[FixTesteR]

I see. Then it's gonna be a problem. My installation will have numerous mods, and the MI Tool will install them in the right order. The Tool stops once everything is installed. So is there any possibility to patch spells up with SRR at the end? Like I said, copying over files? Otherwise I'd be forced to choose between SRR and a whole list of mods that I really like. Thanks!

Edited August 25, 2022 by FixTesteR

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, FixTesteR said:

I see. Then it's gonna be a problem. My installation will have numerous mods, and the MI Tool will install them in the right order. The Tool stops once everything is installed. So is there any possibility to patch spells up with SRR at the end? Like I said, copying over files? Otherwise I'd be forced to choose between SRR and a whole list of mods that I really like. Thanks!

With the Big World Setup in the past, it used to be that all selected mods were extracted into the game directory before any of them were actually installed. You could then select that SR was to be installed, wait until it was automatically extracted, and then simply put SRR on top before the installation started and thereby install SRR instead, but I have no idea if the Mod Installation Tool works that way. As the original post of this thread states, the installation process is extract SR to your game directory, extract SRR on top of it, then install as if it were a normal Spell Revisions installation via setup-spell_rev.exe.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[subtledoctor]

7 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

As such, Vitriolic Sphere should be protected against...in SRR, at least. Subtledoctor is the one who has implemented the latest official version of that component, and I'm not going to touch it due to our differences of opinion in how it should be handled;

By “that component” do you mean the AoE Reflection component? I’ve never made any substantive changes to that… if I touched it at all it was only for something typos in the code I think. And I’m not sure what differences of opinion you’re referring to. 

I haven’t looked much at Vitriolic Sphere… I can’t see any issue with it. If AoE Deflection is not installed, then you could as easily tag Irenicus with a Fireball or any other AoE. If AoE Deflection is installed, Vitriolic Sphere splashes should be blocked. But admittedly I haven’t tested it. Possibly there is something about the VS projectile, being aimed at a target, that doesn’t interact well with AoE Deflections?

Edited August 25, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Bartimaeus]

30 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

By “that component” do you mean the AoE Reflection component? I’ve never made any substantive changes to that… if I touched it at all it was only for something typos in the code I think. And I’m not sure what differences of opinion you’re referring to. 

I haven’t looked much at Vitriolic Sphere… I can’t see any issue with it. If AoE Deflection is not installed, then you could as easily tag Irenicus with a Fireball or any other AoE. If AoE Deflection is installed, Vitriolic Sphere splashes should be blocked. But admittedly I haven’t tested it. Possibly there is something about the VS projectile, being aimed at a target, that doesn’t interact well with AoE Deflections?

If I'm not remembering incorrectly, we've had discussions in the past about how stationary spells should be handled as well as the particulars of some of the more tricky spells. Good to know it hasn't been changed too much in recent history, though - for some reason, I thought you'd made a few more substantial changes to it. Unfortunately, it would prove to be a bit difficult to port over the improvements I've made to it, since some of the spells that I added had to be implemented in a special manner which is why they were missing from the component in the first place. Something best left to some other time, I think.

I was definitely assuming @FixTesteR had the AoE Spell Deflection component installed, but if not, yeah, those spell deflection spells are not going to work against any AoE spells period.

[subtledoctor]

Upon closer inspection it looks like in my install, the damage effects in SPWI426D.spl have a power level of 0. So maybe they are sneaking past spell deflections and possibly even GOI. (For reference, the Fireball subspell SPWI304D has damage effects with power level 3.)

I don't know why that is. I think those subspells are auto-created by the AoE Deflection code, no? If so i don't know why it would properly set the power level for Fireball but not for Vitriolic Sphere... sigh, I guess now I have to look at the code...

EDIT - looks like the damage effects have a power level of 0 in the base spell SPWI426 if you don't install AoE Deflection. Seems like a bug. I'll put up a PR for a fix.

Where did we land as far as the range of this spell? Did we decide that the "medium" range  spells like this (range=20) were problematic for SCS? If so then this would be a good time to address that as well.  But we can discuss that in a different thread.

Edited August 25, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Upon closer inspection it looks like in my install, the damage effects in SPWI426D.spl have a power level of 0. So maybe they are sneaking past spell deflections and possibly even GOI. (For reference, the Fireball subspell SPWI304D has damage effects with power level 3.)

I don't know why that is. I think those subspells are auto-created by the AoE Deflection code, no? If so i don't know why it would properly set the power level for Fireball but not for Vitriolic Sphere... sigh, I guess now I have to look at the code...

EDIT - looks like the damage effects have a power level of 0 in the base spell SPWI426 if you don't install AoE Deflection. Seems like a bug. I'll put up a PR for a fix.

Where did we land as far as the range of this spell? Did we decide that the "medium" range  spells like this (range=20) were problematic for SCS? If so then this would be a good time to address that as well.  But we can discuss that in a different thread.

For SRR, I ended up making pretty much every spell I believed to be conceivably used for a contingency/sequencer that'd target an enemy long range, which included Vitriolic Sphere. While having some variability in range was a neat idea, I don't think it really made much practical difference to change them all to long besides making sure contingencies/sequencers didn't break. Actually, since SCS uses Vitriolic Sphere a bit, it seems like that particular one benefited the AI more than the player, .

That would do it; I had a similar issue recently with the arcane HLAs, except instead it was setting them to level 1 instead of 0. Touchy!