SR Revised V1.3.900 (2022 August 8th)

[pochesun]

6 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/xv31e0koue6nuc6/WeiDU.log

This is the latest I've made.

thx a lot

[Isewein]

Without having read the 119 pages of this thread, is there a reason this still isn't integrated into a new SR version? Is it following a different general design philosophy? Is there a guide somewhere which of the two SRs I should chose as a player used to the old SR depending on my preferences?

Edited October 13, 2022 by Isewein

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, Isewein said:

Without having read the 119 pages of this thread, is there a reason this still isn't integrated into a new SR version? Is it following a different general design philosophy? Is there a guide somewhere which of the two SRs I should chose as a player used to the old SR depending on my preferences?

I've done SRR/IRR my way and without oversight, largely without comprehensive documentation (partly because I initially intended for them to be only for me, partly because the effort started long before it was hosted on GitHub, partly because fixes both minor/major and creative design choices all got jumbled up and intermixed and this makes documenting all changes very difficult and certainly impossible to decouple); this is highly problematic because SR and IR are simply not my mods. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. As subtledoctor is helpful to remind anyone who asks something like what you just did, the official versions of SR and IR still work, so you should only use SRR or IRR if the changes I've made appeal to you. And because of the problematic nature of its development, neither SRR or IRR will ever become the official versions: such a decision would have to be both community driven and with at least Mike's approval, and while Mike (admin on these forums and one of the two original developers for IR) has mentioned being open to the possibility, it seems unlikely at this stage that a kind of community consensus could ever be reached even if we wanted to determine a definitive answer about it.

Which is precisely my great frustration with working on the official version with my two other custodians (subtledoctor and grodigrues): I can unilaterally implement changes to SRR/IRR immediately as soon as I have time and inclination, whether it's a fix or a new direction for a spell or item, and if somebody doesn't like it, they will come in here and post, and we'll have a discussion about it and I can revert or change it if necessary, which I have very frequently done when those types of issues have arisen. Likewise, if someone wants to see some kind of new change that I didn't think of yet, they can also come in here and suggest it and see how I and others feel about it, and possibly get it implemented quickly. With SR, even simple bug-fixing requires consensus between we three custodians (sometimes understandably so, because what seems to be an obvious "fix" to one of us the other two have, at times, vocally disagreed with and nixed), while creative decisions (i.e. changes that don't fall under bug-fixing) require "input from the community", and that has been...well, very difficult to get, so most changes are effectively off the table - see the initial post's spoilers at the bottom to see what kind of changes would be largely off-limits to bring to the official mod. Those changes are mostly non-negotiable for myself personally: I implemented them because I wanted them or other people wanted them, so obviously I am not willing to arbitrarily give them up for the sake of "well, we weren't able to reach a consensus about them". The community going against them I would accede to, but more what happens is that there isn't enough input of any kind at all, thus effectively placing the official versions in stasis for the most part.

With the janky way SRR and IRR are installed, it necessarily requires that users know what they're installing, which I think requires a higher degree of awareness and involvement than if someone's just casually installing normal SR/IR while expecting them to be exactly what they're always been. After all, you have to, at a minimum, be at least lurking on these forums and visit the IR/SR sections and see the threads and read about them. I appreciate and value that level of initiative and involvement from the people who use or have used SRR and IRR. Conversely, if you are the mind that the official versions of these mods should not be changed except for bug-fixing (and people certainly do still use the official versions), then having all of my changes dumped and integrated into the official version would be a bit of a disaster for them, wouldn't it? So I am content with how things currently are.

tl;dr: If you want SR/IR exactly as they've always been, it's probably not a good idea to use SRR/iRR: use the official versions instead.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[Isewein]

Thank you for the explanation. Maybe you should put it as a preamble into the first post so that cursory readers understand the nature of this revised revision. Now, I'm happy to try out your changes - I assume you play with SCS yourself and its AI is able to work with SRR just as well as with SR?

[Bartimaeus]

3 minutes ago, Isewein said:

Thank you for the explanation. Maybe you should put it as a preamble into the first post so that cursory readers understand the nature of this revised revision. Now, I'm happy to try out your changes - I assume you play with SCS yourself and its AI is able to work with SRR just as well as with SR?

Yeah, I was just thinking I really need to remember how to find this post in the future when somebody asks again, . Yes, I play with SCS, and have made some changes (such as the range of spells and some of the optional settings.ini switches) around it.

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

my great frustration with working on the official version with my two other custodians (subtledoctor and grodigrues): I can unilaterally implement changes to SRR/IRR immediately as soon as I have time and inclination, whether it's a fix or a new direction for a spell or item

I've said this before but there is and answer to this, just separate your desired spell changes from SR. Let SR be SR, and make your own mod that changes things however you like. It's quite freeing because you can respect Demi's source material while still doing whatever the heck you want to do!

I know, I know, the response is basically "sunk costs." I only want to, very lightly! point out that it is precisely your devotion to these sunk costs that causes your great frustration.

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

As subtledoctor is helpful to remind anyone who asks something like what you just did, the official versions of SR and IR still work, so you should only use SRR or IRR if the changes I've made appeal to you.

My great frustration is simply that people seem to see this post and assume that it is old and broken, and that your project must be an "up-to-date" version or something like that. (Which I suspect has more to do with the superficial naming scheme than with the work itself!) So I'll happily continue to remind people like @Isewein that Spell Revisions is in very good shape! It has been updated both often and recently, in major and minor ways, and is IMVHO in better shape than ever.

So if you like SR, grab the latest release and enjoy it.

As for SRR, you don't need to read 118 pages about it. Just read the first post in this thread, and if you like those changes better than the base SR mod, then by all means use Bartimaeus' project instead. That is completely, 100%, totally a fine choice as well.

[FixTesteR]

Hi guys. Might be offtopic.

My familiar died a long time ago. Yet my CON is still -1. The number is red. EEKeeper tells me my CON is 15, ingame I have a red 14. Shouldn't this take only a week? Granted, during this period, I've used EEKeeper a few times and saved an edited savefile. I hope that didn't mess up the one week counter. Should I flag or unflag something?

If anyone knows how to help me get my CON back, I'll be grateful. I think it's been way over a week, especially when you include travelling that takes even 24 hours.

Okay, under "effects" in EEKeeper, I do have -1 to CON. Since I haven't got it back in all this time, is it safe to just revert it to 0 and just keep on playing? I'm just pretty sure I selected the option that the CON returns after 1 week.

Just trying to figure out what is going on.

Edited October 22, 2022 by FixTesteR

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, FixTesteR said:

Hi guys. Might be offtopic.

My familiar died a long time ago. Yet my CON is still -1. The number is red. EEKeeper tells me my CON is 15, ingame I have a red 14. Shouldn't this take only a week? Granted, during this period, I've used EEKeeper a few times and saved an edited savefile. I hope that didn't mess up the one week counter. Should I flag or unflag something?

If anyone knows how to help me get my CON back, I'll be grateful. I think it's been way over a week, especially when you include travelling that takes even 24 hours.

Okay, under "effects" in EEKeeper, I do have -1 to CON. Since I haven't got it back in all this time, is it safe to just revert it to 0 and just keep on playing? I'm just pretty sure I selected the option that the CON returns after 1 week.

Just trying to figure out what is going on.

Find Familiar spell description:

Quote

If the familiar dies, the caster will [...] permanently lose 1 point of Constitution

I personally think this mechanic (but also the mechanic of the caster gaining HP while the familiar is alive) is incredibly dumb, but Find Familiar is a difficult beast to tame between the different games, so I'm not inclined to touch it or its mechanics.

[ahungry]

I downloaded the latest SRR https://github.com/BartyMae/SR_Revised/releases

1.3.900

it didn't apply cleanly with the old method of copying (rsync in my case) the SRR directory structure overtop of SR - I suspect this is because I just pulled in the latest SR version 4.19rc1.

I've been using SRR since I found SR, so I guess it'll be interesting to test out "just" SR and not the further adjustments SRR makes.

 

[Bartimaeus]

6 hours ago, ahungry said:

I downloaded the latest SRR https://github.com/BartyMae/SR_Revised/releases

1.3.900

it didn't apply cleanly with the old method of copying (rsync in my case) the SRR directory structure overtop of SR - I suspect this is because I just pulled in the latest SR version 4.19rc1.

I've been using SRR since I found SR, so I guess it'll be interesting to test out "just" SR and not the further adjustments SRR makes.

 

Did it fail to install, or are you using some other measure to determine how cleanly it copies over? v4.19rc1 hasn't changed the process any here on Windows: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/qp17a23i25tgqd4/explorer_Ef3xgztbRJ.mp4

 

[FixTesteR]

12 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I personally think this mechanic (but also the mechanic of the caster gaining HP while the familiar is alive) is incredibly dumb, but Find Familiar is a difficult beast to tame between the different games, so I'm not inclined to touch it or its mechanics.

Exactly. And only the protagonist can cast it. So from now on, I'm staying away from it. It think it unbalances the game. I solved by situation via EEKeeper. I guess you're not satisfied how this spell is handled even in SRR, right? If there was no boost in HP and no CON loss, then this might be an okay balanced spell.

[subtledoctor]

There are mods that address that…

Edited October 23, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Bartimaeus]

3 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

Exactly. And only the protagonist can cast it. So from now on, I'm staying away from it. It think it unbalances the game. I solved by situation via EEKeeper. I guess you're not satisfied how this spell is handled even in SRR, right? If there was no boost in HP and no CON loss, then this might be an okay balanced spell.

No, I've always disliked Find Familiar - for those reasons, and also because I prefer to control less characters (to this point, I usually only use a maximum of 5 party members), not more, and Find Familiar is obviously a bit of an antithesis to that in basically adding another semi-party member without much purpose. The thief-like familiars don't get ever good enough thieving abilities to make a thief unnecessary, and the caster-like familiars get a couple of utility abilities, but both are so vulnerable outside of like right at the beginning of BG1 that the hassle is not really worth the trouble. So you get your bonus HP and have the thing sit in your inventory 99% of the time...at least, if you're sane.

I know there's at least one mod out there that revamps Familiars (though I haven't played around with it myself since I just...fundamentally don't like the idea of familiars), but I don't know about just killing the constitution/HP stuff.

[ahungry]

@Bartimaeusit failed to install - I am using GNU/Linux.

 

# # ### NOTE: Currently SRR doesn't apply to SR per latest update
# # ### Site: https://github.com/Gibberlings3/SpellRevisions/releases
# # ### Site: https://github.com/BartyMae/SR_Revised/releases
rm -fr spell_rev ; inflate SpellRevisions-4.19rc1.tar.gz ; mv SpellRevisions-4.19rc1/spell_rev ./
rm -fr 'SR_Revised-1.3.900-' ; inflate 'SR_Revised-1.3.900-.tar.gz'
rsync -avz './SR_Revised-1.3.900-/spell_rev/' ./spell_rev/
weinstall spell_rev --yes --no-exit-pause --language 0

# NOTE: inflate is a shell function I use to handle zip/tar/rar etc. in a single command for my setup script

this was in an EET setup after my general/npc/quest section, but before my kits/EET_end/tweaks section.

In this test, I had SCS installed at start of order instead of end (this hasn't impacted my SR/SRR weinstall in the past - not speaking to any game play testing).

[Bartimaeus]

3 hours ago, ahungry said:

@Bartimaeusit failed to install - I am using GNU/Linux.

 

# # ### NOTE: Currently SRR doesn't apply to SR per latest update
# # ### Site: https://github.com/Gibberlings3/SpellRevisions/releases
# # ### Site: https://github.com/BartyMae/SR_Revised/releases
rm -fr spell_rev ; inflate SpellRevisions-4.19rc1.tar.gz ; mv SpellRevisions-4.19rc1/spell_rev ./
rm -fr 'SR_Revised-1.3.900-' ; inflate 'SR_Revised-1.3.900-.tar.gz'
rsync -avz './SR_Revised-1.3.900-/spell_rev/' ./spell_rev/
weinstall spell_rev --yes --no-exit-pause --language 0

# NOTE: inflate is a shell function I use to handle zip/tar/rar etc. in a single command for my setup script

this was in an EET setup after my general/npc/quest section, but before my kits/EET_end/tweaks section.

In this test, I had SCS installed at start of order instead of end (this hasn't impacted my SR/SRR weinstall in the past - not speaking to any game play testing).

"Currently SRR doesn't apply to SR per latest update"? What exactly is spitting that out, and on what criteria? But yeah, I don't really know what the installation process of a mod looks like on non-Windows environments, I guess. From what I can tell looking at the .tar.gz files for both b18 and b19, the structure for both is identical, so I don't see why anything would have changed: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/3054q6gp3imvm6y/explorer_jbEyQgaTv7.mp4

In the past, I've created combined archives for people in the event of non-Windows OSes not being able to combine them correctly, so if you ever need that, just hit me up.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Bartimaeus