SR Revised V1.3.900 (2022 August 8th)

[Bartimaeus]

4 hours ago, pochesun said:

Regarding how Haste and Slow interract: Its not working quite the way you described, they dont override each other equally.

If my party is prebuffed with Haste spell and opponent cast Slow on my characters then 2 things happen: first Haste spell will be dispelled (100% guaranteed) from all my characters, second - then every character is checked for save vs Polymorph throws and those who failed get slowed, those who dont fail - just remain the same (not slowed, not hasted). Slow is not applied guaranteed (!). And i do like that randomness, its kinda fun and i dont think its required to be mended or altered in anyway. 

Different thing happens when my party enters the fight without any prebuffs and my opponent cast Slow spell on my party and then i cast Haste - Haste will apply on all my party members guaranteed (!). Basically Haste countering Slow is way more effective then visa versa. Thats why i said Haste > Slow, kinda unfair

Your description sounds about the same as mine, only that I failed to communicate Slow's...er, slow effect being subject to a saving throw. If you want to make it more 'fair', I could modify Haste to require your characters fail a saving throw to apply, .

I've taken a look at Potion of Speed, and it specifically gives immunity to the arcane spell Slow. Though the description of Potion of Speed mentions that it cannot be dispelled, when this is said throughout IR/SR, it should mean by way of a generic dispel (e.g. Dispel/Remove Magic, or Carsomyr's Dispelling property), not something like Breach (or in this case, Slow). I've always intended for Potion of Speed to be countered by Slow, so I will be removing that, thanks for reporting it!

[pochesun]

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Your description sounds about the same as mine, only that I failed to communicate Slow's...er, slow effect being subject to a saving throw. If you want to make it more 'fair', I could modify Haste to require your characters fail a saving throw to apply, .

No thx  I guess things better leave as they are

2 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I've taken a look at Potion of Speed, and it specifically gives immunity to the arcane spell Slow. Though the description of Potion of Speed mentions that it cannot be dispelled, when this is said throughout IR/SR, it should mean by way of a generic dispel (e.g. Dispel/Remove Magic, or Carsomyr's Dispelling property), not something like Breach (or in this case, Slow). I've always intended for Potion of Speed to be countered by Slow, so I will be removing that, thanks for reporting it!

Glad it will be fixed since Haste potion seemed too OP. Does it mean that effect from Potion of Speed will be also dispelled by things like Carsomyr etc from now on?

Edited May 13, 2023 by pochesun

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, pochesun said:

No thx  I guess things better leave as they are

Glad it will be fixed since Haste potion seemed too OP. Does it mean that effect from Potion of Speed will be also dispelled by things like Carsomyr etc from now on?

No, the effects of potions will remain immune to generic dispelling. Some potions can still be removed by more specific counters (e.g. Breach taking down the various potions of elemental resistance).

Edited May 13, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[NdranC]

I've noticed that Secret Word says it will dispell "Spell Immunity"

Is this a typo or is there a configuration where I can have Spell Immunity with the rest of SRR?

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, NdranC said:

I've noticed that Secret Word says it will dispell "Spell Immunity"

Is this a typo or is there a configuration where I can have Spell Immunity with the rest of SRR?

It's not listed in the SRR description, but if you're playing with SCS, it automatically re-generates those lists and may include erroneous entries SR/R can't control for.

Quote

The spell protection spells dispelled by Secret Word are: Minor Spell Deflection, Non-Detection, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Spell Deflection, Spell Shield, Globe of Invulnerability, Greater Spell Deflection, and Shield of the Archons.

I'm also not particularly pleased SCS decides to go by straight alphabetical instead of by level and then alphabetical, but what can you do?

Edited May 15, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[pochesun]

@Bartimaeus wanted to ask you if you managed to make Haste potion being countered by Slow spell? I am about to make a fresh installation, the reason i am asking - i havent seen any changes regarding it in Github commits. If no - consider it as a reminder  

[Bartimaeus]

3 hours ago, pochesun said:

@Bartimaeus wanted to ask you if you managed to make Haste potion being countered by Slow spell? I am about to make a fresh installation, the reason i am asking - i havent seen any changes regarding it in Github commits. If no - consider it as a reminder  

Thanks for reminding me! Just added it to the live repository version.

[NdranC]

Is the blindness icon change intentional? It used to be fine but now it shows up like this on my new install.

Edit: To add to this, the spell works as intended but the animation of the spell is also messed up, it looks like Fire Storm lol.

Edited June 2, 2023 by NdranC

[Salk]

It seems it uses the icon and animation for Obscuring Mist, making that spell a mix between the original spell and the one SR(R) would replace it with.

[Bartimaeus]

5 hours ago, NdranC said:

Is the blindness icon change intentional? It used to be fine but now it shows up like this on my new install.

Edit: To add to this, the spell works as intended but the animation of the spell is also messed up, it looks like Fire Storm lol.

I just installed the latest version of SRR with the "blindness" switch set to 1, and it was Blindness both in appearance...

...and effects, as I was able to blind my own (ToB-leveled) character after casting it a handful of times. Setting the switch back to 0 and reinstalling, it is fully Obscuring Mist:

So...what mods have made changes to your SPWI106.spl?

Edited June 2, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[NdranC]

So I double checked and no other mod besides spell_rev v1.3.918 is affecting that file. This started happening recently with the latest install after I lost the previous one.

Not sure if it helps but I also noticed that the description for the spell is slightly incorrect as well, it's using the old bg style instead of ee style.

These are the spell_rev settings

// Please look in the Spell Revisions readme under "optional settings.ini tweaks" for explanations of these switches

// Spell Revisions
install_tobex                   = 1
revised_saves                   = 1
celestials                      = 1
fiends                          = 1
dispel_globes                   = 1
petrification                   = 1
spell_description_style         = 0
ranged_curing                   = 0
friendly_spells_pierce          = 0
anti_magic_spells_pierce        = 1
spell_protections               = 0
spellbook_hlas                  = 0
targetable_chant                = 0
blindness                       = 1
pick_familiar                   = 0
slowing_web                     = 1
alternative_dispel_magic        = 0
alternative_remove_magic        = 0
chaos                           = 0
spell_immunity                  = 0
resist_imprisonment             = 1

// Enhanced Editions
ee_two_handed_shapeshifts       = 1
ee_enchanted_weapon             = 0

The only weird new thing I'm using is eeex. I'm using a couple other mods as well but this is very early in the install and according to the changelog nothing else is touching that file.

[Bartimaeus]

@NdranC

I reinstalled with your settings.ini, and everything was still fine. Hmm, well, I suppose this is one of those times I have to actually download the live repository version instead of using my own files, just on the off-chance something weird with GitHub has transpired...My program that manages my GitHub repositories, SmartGit, says that my directories are the same, but it wouldn't be the first time that it hasn't been entirely truthful with me.

And...would you look at that?

Hmph. Fixed it, and redownloading master and reinstalling...confirms that it now works again. Sorry about that.

[NdranC]

I have a suggestion regarding the optional settings.

We currently have access to "dispel_globes" which allows 3 ways to customize how globes interact with dispel magic. In particular we could set it up so globes protect other buffs against dispel magic. Which is great customization.

Then we have "spell_protections" which offers the option to make both globes and deflects protect other buffs against dispel magic. Isn't this overlapping partially with the previous option? Wouldn't it be better for this setting to ONLY affect deflection spells since we can already achieve globes blocking dispel with the previous setting?

This would allow a new configuration to make deflect protect against dispel while making globes ignore it. Which is what I ideally wanted to try this time around.

On a side note, I've been thinking this might be the most consistent way to deal with this spell. I feel like dispel/remove magic are breach like effects and have more in common with each other than any other spell. So if you can dispel liches and rakshasas which usually are immune to spells of 5 and lower then it makes sense that globes shouldn't block them either. As well as if breach is supposed to be stopped by deflections then probably dispel/remove magic should be as well.

[NdranC]

2 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

Hmph. Fixed it, and redownloading master and reinstalling...confirms that it now works again. Sorry about that.

omg, great timing. Thank you, I was about to wipe everything to check if basic install got corrupted somehow. I keep installing and uninstalling mods so much that I never know if I messed up somewhere.

[Bartimaeus]

45 minutes ago, NdranC said:

I have a suggestion regarding the optional settings.

We currently have access to "dispel_globes" which allows 3 ways to customize how globes interact with dispel magic. In particular we could set it up so globes protect other buffs against dispel magic. Which is great customization.

Then we have "spell_protections" which offers the option to make both globes and deflects protect other buffs against dispel magic. Isn't this overlapping partially with the previous option? Wouldn't it be better for this setting to ONLY affect deflection spells since we can already achieve globes blocking dispel with the previous setting?

This would allow a new configuration to make deflect protect against dispel while making globes ignore it. Which is what I ideally wanted to try this time around.

On a side note, I've been thinking this might be the most consistent way to deal with this spell. I feel like dispel/remove magic are breach like effects and have more in common with each other than any other spell. So if you can dispel liches and rakshasas which usually are immune to spells of 5 and lower then it makes sense that globes shouldn't block them either. As well as if breach is supposed to be stopped by deflections then probably dispel/remove magic should be as well.

What you're saying makes sense and I always thought the overlap between these options was rather awkward myself, but the path to do it would be weird. The way the "spell_protections" tweak works is that it actually sets a power level for the different Dispel/Remove Magics, so that when they hit e.g. a Spell Deflection, Spell Deflection absorbs it as if it were any other 3rd level spell (such as a Fireball), depleting charges. By necessity, this also makes M/GoI absorb it as well, since those two also work on the basis of power levels.

Maybe...if Dispel/Remove Magic was broken into two subspells, one that doesn't do anything but has a power level set so that it can drain charges of e.g. Spell Deflection, and then another that has the actual effects of Dispel/Remove but which Spell Deflection et al. specifically grant immunity against, thereby protecting you from the dispel until your Spell Deflection (or whatever) has been used up. Globes would thus protect against the (useless) charge-depleting subspell, but against the actual dispel. I suppose that would work, and I don't...think anything horrible would result elsewhere. Oh, except it wouldn't work correctly for non-EE games, since the immunity to Dispel/Remove Magic would have no way of dissipating itself, thus continuing to grant you immunity to them even after your Spell Deflection (or other similar spell) has been used up. At least, I think that's how Spell Deflection works in the EEs. Maybe this would be best as a fourth option.

43 minutes ago, NdranC said:

omg, great timing. Thank you, I was about to wipe everything to check if basic install got corrupted somehow. I keep installing and uninstalling mods so much that I never know if I messed up somewhere.

I reinstalled SRR approximately 30 times, and that's not really an exaggeration, trying to figure out what was going on. It's definitely not very fun.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Bartimaeus