SR Revised V1.3.900 (2022 August 8th)

[subtledoctor]

3 hours ago, NdranC said:

Last time I had a lot of issues in SoA/ToB with mages using triple dispel sequencers on my entire party. If I remember correctly, the only way to stop dispel is with dispelling screen, but that only works on the first one. Is there anything I can do to help against the triple dispel sequencers?

I don’t have the files in front of me, but don’t Dispel and Breach use subspells to specifically remove Dispelling Screen? Set the subspell to timing mode 4/duration 1 and the delay should prevent multi-Dispel sequencers from so easily bypassing Screens. 

I think?

[FixTesteR]

23 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

scaling saving throw Remove Magic

I tried finding readme for SRR but after a few minutes I decided I'll just ask you. DM and RM in SRR don't work by underlevel/overlevel percentage bonuses, but rather, ST penalties are implemented? Is that explained in more detail anywhere? I also really hate original/SR Dispel Magic. If only SR came with a possibility to tweak this one spell. And maybe MGoI and GoI like you have it in SRR. Thanks for your answers.

[Bartimaeus]

12 minutes ago, FixTesteR said:

I tried finding readme for SRR but after a few minutes I decided I'll just ask you. DM and RM in SRR don't work by underlevel/overlevel percentage bonuses, but rather, ST penalties are implemented? Is that explained in more detail anywhere? I also really hate original/SR Dispel Magic. If only SR came with a possibility to tweak this one spell. And maybe MGoI and GoI like you have it in SRR. Thanks for your answers.

It's an optional tweak in settings.ini. Here's what the SRR readme says:

alternative_dispel_magic (default 0)
When set to 1, Dispel Magic (arcane, divine, Inquisitor's, and Yeslick's) no longer uses the caster level vs. target level mechanics as per vanilla, but instead a simple saving throw that scales with level (-1 for every 5 levels of the caster, up to a maximum of -4 at 20th level). When set to 0, the vanilla dispelling mechanics are used. When set to 2, Dispel Magic becomes a sort of lesser Breach AoE effect - one combat and one specific protection are removed from each creature, growing to two of each at 10th level, then three of each at 15th level.

alternative_remove_magic (default 0)
Identical to the component above, but instead applies to the Remove Magic.

[gatperdut]

Hey, does SRR address e.g. True Sight/Dispel Magic/etc from Inquisitors or other sources like items? Or do they behave like in vanilla? As far as I could tell, in SR that kind of stuff behaves differently to the spells themselves. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by gatperdut

[FixTesteR]

On 4/16/2023 at 9:02 PM, Bartimaeus said:

but instead a simple saving throw that scales with level (-1 for every 5 levels of the caster, up to a maximum of -4 at 20th level)

But would that be hard for me as a lay person to fix for SR? In my next playthrough I might give SRR a chance. Dm just overshadows all other dispel options, which sucks.

[subtledoctor]

If you are looking for ideas to address that, in my game I changed Dispel Magic into a miniature Breach - where Breach removes all combat protections and specific protections, Dispel removes one of each. So in some battles I am peppering enemies with multiple Dispels to get the same effect as one Breach. Which is a nice option since it uses lower-level slots and is available earlier. 

[Bartimaeus]

6 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

But would that be hard for me as a lay person to fix for SR? In my next playthrough I might give SRR a chance. Dm just overshadows all other dispel options, which sucks.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/93jimnb7nqmnm0b/spwi302.save.spl

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/7zu2a2wgkf4b222/spwi326.save.spl

Remove the ".save" from both filenames and place it in your override and both Dispel Magic and Remove Magic will work that way instead. The descriptions of those spells will be busted, but the spells should work. Maybe make a backup of spwi302.spl and spwi326.spl first.

(e): I don't know that this will work if you currently use SCS though, because SCS does a lot of spell duplication for use with its AI. So I definitely do not make any guarantees of this working here.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[FixTesteR]

Thanks to both of you @subtledoctor and @Bartimaeus!

12 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I don't know that this will work if you currently use SCS though

Would I have to find other folders where these spells are? I take it you see a problem because spells could be duplicated in other folders, and not a problem due to SCS not being able to handle a modified DM in game.

Also, since SR only has DM, do I just modify RM?

Does your version of DM/RM dispel ALL of status effects if it isn't saved against? Or does ST have to be made for every effect you have on your person?

Lastly, I take it this file swap should be done on a clean install. Right? Not mid-game, and possibly not when starting a new game on an old install? Or ... what if I make a backup like you said, overwrite the files, try if the game works, and if not, revert back. Everything should work then, yes?

[FixTesteR]

13 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

where Breach removes all combat protections and specific protections

And vanilla DM is able to remove every effect you have on you, right? Well, your version is certainly superior to that. Is it a part of your mod?

[Bartimaeus]

4 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

Thanks to both of you @subtledoctor and @Bartimaeus!

Would I have to find other folders where these spells are? I take it you see a problem because spells could be duplicated in other folders, and not a problem due to SCS not being able to handle a modified DM in game.

Also, since SR only has DM, do I just modify RM?

Does your version of DM/RM dispel ALL of status effects if it isn't saved against? Or does ST have to be made for every effect you have on your person?

Lastly, I take it this file swap should be done on a clean install. Right? Not mid-game, and possibly not when starting a new game on an old install? Or ... what if I make a backup like you said, overwrite the files, try if the game works, and if not, revert back. Everything should work then, yes?

The issue with SCS is basically...
A. SCS will often duplicate spell resources as they currently exist to other names/resources.
B. SCS will then use the duplicate spells for special uses.
C. Any updates to those spells after SCS has been installed will not be effective - you would've had to make those changes before SCS was installed so that the changes could be applied to the duplicated resources.

Honestly, between SCS and both Dispel Magic/Remove Magic existing in SRR but not SR, putting those .spls in your override is kind of just a bad idea in general.

[FixTesteR]

27 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

putting those .spls in your override is kind of just a bad idea in general.

In general, meaning even when I do a clean vanilla install and before I install SCS, you wouldn't recommend me putting them in the override folder?

[Bartimaeus]

9 minutes ago, FixTesteR said:

In general, meaning even when I do a clean vanilla install and before I install SCS, you wouldn't recommend me putting them in the override folder?

If trying to fit that special SRR Remove Magic into normal SR, I think the best way to approach it would be to replace both SPWI302.spl and SPWI326.spl in spell_rev\spwi3## folder with your spwi302.save.spl before installing SR. It still wouldn't update the description, but it would result in both the player and AI having access to and using that Remove Magic. It wouldn't change how the divine or Inquisitor Dispel Magic work though, but SCS AI doesn't use those.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[FixTesteR]

45 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

It wouldn't change how the divine or Inquisitor Dispel Magic work though

Thanks! So I'd only have to be consistent myself when using divine DM of my divine party members. Good. I'll copy both files, and only in spell_rev folder, even though SR only has one of these spells.

Thank you for all your work and contributions!

EDIT: Never knew SCS doesn't use divine DM, not even SCS divine casters.

Edited April 19, 2023 by FixTesteR

[subtledoctor]

8 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

And vanilla DM is able to remove every effect you have on you, right? Well, your version is certainly superior to that. Is it a part of your mod?

It’s mixed with a bunch of other stuff in this mod. It has several options - DM can stay the same while RM becomes Baby Breach; DM can become party-friendly (basically become vanilla RM); or DM and RM can both become Baby Breach. Also has options for whether DM/RM should be blocked by GOI. 

Those options accompany substantive changes to the Spell Deflection mechanic, so make sure you like that if you want to use the mod. It was designed/tested for use with SR, but I think it should work with SRR too. EDIT - also, it is designed to be installed after SCS, so you can try it out in a current game and remove it if you don’t like it. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by subtledoctor

[Bartimaeus]

On 4/19/2023 at 9:22 AM, FixTesteR said:

Thanks! So I'd only have to be consistent myself when using divine DM of my divine party members. Good. I'll copy both files, and only in spell_rev folder, even though SR only has one of these spells.

Thank you for all your work and contributions!

EDIT: Never knew SCS doesn't use divine DM, not even SCS divine casters.

My understanding is that SR only allows the player to use SPWI326.spl (Dispel Magic) but the AI continues to use SPWI302 (Remove Magic). I don't know if it currently works this way in the latest version of SR, but Dispel Magic is supposed to target both enemies and friendlies while Remove Magic only targets enemies; the AI (and SCS) are not so foolish as to try to cast Dispel Magic and possibly dispel its own buffs, which is also why SCS doesn't let divine casters cast Dispel Magic (and if the message log says SCS is having its mages cast Dispel Magic, it's actually Remove Magic).

SRR has both Dispel Magic and Remove Magic enabled for the player, but changes Remove Magic's projectile size from a 15' radius (same size as a Fireball) to a 10' radius (Skull Trap) while leaving Dispel Magic at the larger 15' size. This makes SCS' spam of Remove Magic slightly less insane while also reducing its potential power for the player as well, obviously...and giving some kind of benefit to using Dispel Magic instead, though I imagine most people still prefer Remove Magic because of its ease of use.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Bartimaeus