SR Revised V1.3.900 (2022 August 8th)

[Bartimaeus]

10 hours ago, pochesun said:

Still the bonus Thac0 +4 remains permanent and i assume also applies to projectile attacks (like darst, for instance), though description says "any melee attack..." Is it supposed to be this way?

If by "permanent", you mean "for the duration of the spell", then yes. The THAC0 bonus applying to ranged weapons would be an error, though.

10 hours ago, pochesun said:

Regarding status: Last time i fresh installed BG with mods was 2 months ago, maybe something changed since then or some additions were made to mastery version. I only use Tweaks Anthology (nothing relating to spells, just some charachters different locations and maxed HP), SRR, IRR and SCS, nothing else. On my installation its says "Spell Immunity". I dunno, i will check it again when i fresh instlal  the mods again and tell you if it gets fixed.

No changes with regards to the character status names have happened in forever, so one of those is changing them. Not sure which.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[FixTesteR]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

The THAC0 bonus applying to ranged weapons would be an error, though.

Maybe it comes down to personal perspective, but roleplay-wise, why should a wraithformed character only have a melee attack advantage and not ranged?

Incidentally, do (improved) invisible characters have +4 to both ranged and melee?

[pochesun]

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

If by "permanent", you mean "for the duration of the spell", then yes. The THAC0 bonus applying to ranged weapons would be an error, though.

Could you please check it, if it gives bonus +4 Thac0 to projectiles as well   i am not sure but i think it does.

 

1 hour ago, Bartimaeus said:

No changes with regards to the character status names have been changed in forever, so one of those is changing them. Not sure which.

As i said, i will definitely report about it with my new fresh installation. I am playing BG 1 now and unfortunately wont have time next week but i am planning to reinstall BG2 and continue with my current run in about 2 weeks or so.  

[subtledoctor]

4 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

wouldn't be surprised if the sticking point that made it necessary to get rid of Spell Turning was the AoE Spell Deflection component though

Yes, I didn’t mention that but I agree. Actually I’m not 100% sure it wouldn’t work… but if it doesn’t work this certainly makes sense. 

At any rate all this was discussed at length around ~2010 when the mod was shifting from v3 to v4, anyone can peruse this forum and read Demi’s thoughts on the matter. 

[subtledoctor]

32 minutes ago, FixTesteR said:

Maybe it comes down to personal perspective, but roleplay-wise, why should a wraithformed character only have a melee attack advantage and not ranged?

The idea is, there are all sorts if ways you can try to stop someone from striking you - try to grab their wrist, shove them, etc. Normal combat mechanics assume this stuff. But a touch attack can bypass a lot of that maneuvering, since even a no-damage glancing blow that would normally be considered a “miss” can deliver the touch effect. 

Similarly, when you are partially ethereal or whatever Wraithform equates to, a lot of normal defensive maneuvering just doesn’t work. So mechanically, you get a +4 bonus to hit just like with touch attacks. 

[pochesun]

28 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Yes, I didn’t mention that but I agree. Actually I’m not 100% sure it wouldn’t work… but if it doesn’t work this certainly makes sense. 

At any rate all this was discussed at length around ~2010 when the mod was shifting from v3 to v4, anyone can peruse this forum and read Demi’s thoughts on the matter. 

I actually browsed for that discussion and that time people mostly referred to AoE blocking issue. Probably it was indeed the main reason.

[pochesun]

@Bartimaeus have you managed top check Wraithform? I think it grants +4 bonus to Thac0 for projectiles also. Is it supposed to be this way or its a bug?

[Bartimaeus]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:47 AM, pochesun said:

@Bartimaeus have you managed top check Wraithform? I think it grants +4 bonus to Thac0 for projectiles also. Is it supposed to be this way or its a bug?

Yeah, it does look like it's just a generic THAC0 bonus instead of specifically a melee THAC0 bonus, will fix, thanks!

[FixTesteR]

On 5/1/2023 at 11:52 PM, subtledoctor said:

Similarly, when you are partially ethereal or whatever Wraithform equates to, a lot of normal defensive maneuvering just doesn’t work.

Yeah ... but why then not +4 to ranged attack, too? Maybe the answer is already in your post but I just fail to see it.

[Bartimaeus]

2 hours ago, FixTesteR said:

Yeah ... but why then not +4 to ranged attack, too? Maybe the answer is already in your post but I just fail to see it.

I would presume because being ethereal at range doesn't make any material difference versus not being ethereal at range, so where would any benefit come from? Dodge, deflect, or block the projectile as per usual.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[pochesun]

I found an interesting interraction. If a creature covered by Obscuring Mist spell is attacked  from a distance with missile weapon (bow for instance) then the attacker receives -4 penalty to attack rolls, but if the creature covered by Obscuring Mist is protected by any antiblind effect (in my case Helm of the Watcher) and is attacked by missile from a distance then the attack is performed with no penalty  Its kinda similar to situation with rogues that can set traps when they are blinded while enemy enemy is in the vicinity. Overall - pretty insteresting mechanic   

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, pochesun said:

I found an interesting interraction. If a creature covered by Obscuring Mist spell is attacked  from a distance with missile weapon (bow for instance) then the attacker receives -4 penalty to attack rolls, but if the creature covered by Obscuring Mist is protected by any antiblind effect (in my case Helm of the Watcher) and is attacked by missile from a distance then the attack is performed with no penalty  Its kinda similar to situation with rogues that can set traps when they are blinded while enemy enemy is in the vicinity. Overall - pretty insteresting mechanic   

You know, I could swear I've noticed this problem a few times before, but I don't know why I've never fixed it until now. Thanks for bringing it up again.

[pochesun]

@Bartimaeus wanted to ask you about slow/haste iterraction. As far as i understand Slow spell can either negate effect of Haste spell (so they cancel each other) or if a target fails save vs Breath - in addition can counter it and make the target slowed. I really like that. But when target gets slowed first via Slow spell and then i cast Haste spell on it - target always becomes hasted. So basically Haste > Slow?  Kinda unfair  

Also absolutely broken thing in my opinion - if my character imbibes Potion of speed then this character basically becomes immune to Slow spell for 1 turn - when Slow is casted on this character - nothign happens, haste effect persists.

[Bartimaeus]

4 hours ago, pochesun said:

@Bartimaeus wanted to ask you about slow/haste iterraction. As far as i understand Slow spell can either negate effect of Haste spell (so they cancel each other) or if a target fails save vs Breath - in addition can counter it and make the target slowed. I really like that. But when target gets slowed first via Slow spell and then i cast Haste spell on it - target always becomes hasted. So basically Haste > Slow?  Kinda unfair  

Also absolutely broken thing in my opinion - if my character imbibes Potion of speed then this character basically becomes immune to Slow spell for 1 turn - when Slow is casted on this character - nothign happens, haste effect persists.

Slow/Haste: They both override each other equally. That is to say, a character who is currently affected by Slow who has Haste cast upon them will have the Slow dispelled and the Haste will apply, while a character who is currently affected by Haste who has Slow cast upon them will have the Haste dispelled and the Slow will apply. Though with a caveat that I just noticed: a Hasted character will always have their Haste dispelled by Slow even if they resist the saving throw (or make their magic resistance check!). I'm not sure if that last bit is really intended or not, and I'm not sure what I'd like to do about it.

Potion of Speed: Is this IRR's Potion of Speed? It should be treated the same as Haste, I think.

[pochesun]

5 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Slow/Haste: They both override each other equally. That is to say, a character who is currently affected by Slow who has Haste cast upon them will have the Slow dispelled and the Haste will apply, while a character who is currently affected by Haste who has Slow cast upon them will have the Haste dispelled and the Slow will apply. Though with a caveat that I just noticed: a Hasted character will always have their Haste dispelled by Slow even if they resist the saving throw (or make their magic resistance check!). I'm not sure if that last bit is really intended or not, and I'm not sure what I'd like to do about it.

Potion of Speed: Is this IRR's Potion of Speed? It should be treated the same as Haste, I think.

Yes, its IRR Potion of Speed. Please, check it, i am pretty sure Haste wont be "dispelled" or in any way replaced by Slow. I think its somehow connected with the fact that potions in IRR are not dispellable.

Regarding how Haste and Slow interract: Its not working quite the way you described, they dont override each other equally.

If my party is prebuffed with Haste spell and opponent cast Slow on my characters then 2 things happen: first Haste spell will be dispelled (100% guaranteed) from all my characters, second - then every character is checked for save vs Polymorph throws and those who failed get slowed, those who dont fail - just remain the same (not slowed, not hasted). Slow is not applied guaranteed (!). And i do like that randomness, its kinda fun and i dont think its required to be mended or altered in anyway. 

Different thing happens when my party enters the fight without any prebuffs and my opponent cast Slow spell on my party and then i cast Haste - Haste will apply on all my party members guaranteed (!). Basically Haste countering Slow is way more effective then visa versa. Thats why i said Haste > Slow, kinda unfair