Unearthed Arcana presents Faiths & Powers: Gods of the Realms

[Cahir]

31 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Champion of Helm for Keldorn and Ajantis

If I recall correctly, Keldorn is paladin of Torm, not Helm. Is there any Torm kit in FnP? 

I'm not especially fond of DR kits, but if someone assures me it's working on EET, I'll might install couple of them. 

[4udr4n]

This is all great info, thanks!

  

39 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Quote

Also, while I'm here, if I want the Divine Remix kits, do I need to install them with Divine Remix, or are they also included in FnP?

Install DR, before FnP.  (See my weidu.log in your thread.)  They will be compatible with all FnP systems. 

If I don't install DR, will I lose those kits?

Do they exist independently in FnP?

39 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Quote

What overlap is there between divine_remix:200:Druid Remix and divine_remix:100:Cleric Remix with FnP?

Both mods add clerics of the same deities; if you don't trim anything, you will get multiple cleric kits for Sune, Cyric, and one or two others.  This is fine IMO; I think of them as different sects, whose adherents have different kit abilities.  And that way I don't have to decide in advance, I can choose whichever kit seems fun in the moment while I'm playing the game.  But if you don't want your kit menus bloated by multiple kits for each deity, you can disable installing them from one mod or the other.

I specifically meant the remix components, without the kits. Does FnP cover these features in any way:

• The original three kits have their allowed alignments shifted to be their deity alignment plus one step out--e.g. Morninglords of Lathander (a neutral good deity) will now allow followers of lawful good, neutral good, chaotic good, and true neutral. Notably from the original alignment setup, chaotic neutral clerics only have an option for Talos, and lawful evil only for Helm. Kits have unique holy symbols for their deities, for ToB players. The original cleric kits now use their specialty names instead of generic priest, e.g. the kit names will change from Priest of Lathander to Morninglord of Lathander.
• The cleric maximum spell progression has been altered to match available 2e source material. Tthe most notable difference is that very high level clerics should see more 7th level spell slots.
• The clerical strongholds in Shadows of Amn have also been changed slightly, following along the lines of Oversight. Cleric-Rangers will now be offered a choice of stronghold, and the alignment requirements to assist one of the BG2 temples have been altered slightly--Helm no longer accepts Chaotic-aligned characters, for example. The kitted clerics will be offered a stronghold based on their deity, though some trueclass clerics, Painbearers, and Firewalkers will be offered a choice between two temples.
• Druids have looser bounds on their neutrality requirements--rather than being restricted to true neutral, druids are now allowed to have any alignment that contains neutrality: neutral good, neutral evil, lawful neutral, and chaotic neutral are now allowed in addition to true neutral. On the flipside, the druid's ethos is now enforced on their armor selection for multi- and dual-classes. Before fighter-druids were allowed armor (but not weapons) available to fighters; now both armor and weapons are restricted in the same way.

 

4 minutes ago, Cahir said:

If I recall correctly, Keldorn is paladin of Torm, not Helm. Is there any Torm kit in FnP? 

He is, there might be, but he is already kitted as an inquisitor, so may not need changing.

5 minutes ago, Cahir said:

I'm not especially fond of DR kits, but if someone assures me it's working on EET, I'll might install couple of them

I'm actively trying to find out if I can get rid of DR without losing much, as I'm worried it may be causing my FnP issues! 

[4udr4n]

FWIW, my suggestions for divine kits for canon companions would be:

• Aerie - Fastpaws of Baervan Wildwanderer
• Ajantis - Watcher of Helm
• Anomen - Watcher of Helm
• Branwen - Battleguard of Tempus
• Cernd - Totemic Druid
• Faldorn - Shadow Druid
• Glint - Hoodwinker of Baravar Cloakshadow
• Kivan - Elven Archer
• Mazzy - Truesword of Arvoreen
• Tiax - Strifeleader of Cyric
• Viconia - Nightcloak of Shar
• Yeslick - Hammer of Moradin

Theoretically, Quayle could be a Hoodwinker too but he is already an Illusionist, could be an option to swap him?

Minsc could have a real Rasheman Berserker Ranger kit, but the closest I've seen is NPC Kitpack just changing his class name. Maybe your Barbarian Ranger?

Keldorn could be a Champion of Torm, but is already an Inquisitor.

Edited April 28, 2020 by 4udr4n

[subtledoctor]

40 minutes ago, 4udr4n said:

I specifically meant the remix components, without the kits.

The Remix components are required before DR will install kits, so yes, they are also fully compatible with FnP. I don’t recall what your FnP issues are, but I’m 99% certain they are unrelated to DR. 

FnP druids also have liberalized alignment restrictions, so that works fine with other such mods. DR Druid Remix has (or had) a bug that can hose alignmt.2da, but FnP fixes it. 

I forgot Yeslick: FnP makes him an Alaghor of Clangeddin. All of the NPC stuff can be addressed by NPC_EE if you want to change them. My usual practice for Minsc is to make him a fighter instead of ranger, and give him the Barbarian kit. I know he says “ranger” a lot but barbarian is pretty close, sort if, in a way. Also his brain injury and low WIS might theoretically make him “fall,” (there’s no way he should be casting spells) and you could consider the Barbarian fighter to be the fallen form of the Barbarian Ranger kit. 

48 minutes ago, 4udr4n said:

If I don't install DR, will I lose those kits?

I can’t tell which kits you are talking about. But if you want DR kits, you need to install DR. FnP has plenty of kits without DR, but lacks kits for Corellon, Selune, the Red Knight, and Kossuth (though a Fire Mystic is a reasonable substitute for a priest of Kossuth), so I like to install DR with FnP. 

[4udr4n]

1 minute ago, subtledoctor said:

I don’t recall what your FnP issues are, but I’m 99% certain they are unrelated to DR. 

I actually meant MnG issues (Improved Rangers) though I have a bunch of (hopefully irrelevant) warnings on FnP.

4 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

DR Druid Remix has (or had) a bug that can hose alignmt.2da, but FnP fixes it. 

Are you sure? Could that be what is causing MnG problems? What part of FnP fixes it?

5 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I can’t tell which kits you are talking about

Those in bold are the ones I care about using, is it only those that you mention that are missing from FnP?

• divine_remix:103:Install Silverstar of Selune Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:106:Install Nightcloak of Shar Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:107:Install Holy Strategist of the Red Knight Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:109:Install Battleguard of Tempus Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:112:Install Painbearer of Ilmater Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:115:Install Firewalker of Kossuth Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:118:Install Authlim of Iyachtu Xvim Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:121:Install Lorekeeper of Oghma Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:124:Install Heartwarder of Sune Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:127:Install Feywarden of Corellon Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:130:Install Strifeleader of Cyric Cleric Kit

12 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I forgot Yeslick: FnP makes him an Alaghor of Clangeddin.

Works for me.

[Marvin]

On 4/27/2020 at 6:13 PM, subtledoctor said:

Will look into it.  Only humans and half-elves can be druids in the base game, so this is nothing new... I don't recall whether and to what extent we planned to liberalize this.  Sounds like the answer is, "not much, yet."

Strangely enough, in a fresh install with only FnP, I can select Druid with any race...

On 4/27/2020 at 6:13 PM, subtledoctor said:

We made a couple of Occultist kits, but lately we are re-thinking the classifications of these sub-classes.  As for weapons, each is different.  Mystics are based on the druid class, Mystic Warriors are based on the fighter/druid class.  Beastmaster is a ranger, while Beast Lord is a type of druid (formerly an Occultist, but the difference is in name only).  Each has its own weapon usage.

Sounds good to me. One advise if I may, is to specify in the kit description what are the weapons and armors usage for each...

 

On 4/27/2020 at 6:13 PM, subtledoctor said:

The Shadow Druid is there, but you cannot choose it in the normal fashion... you have to become one in-game.  It's sort of like a paladin falling, though of course not as punitive in a mechanical sense.  I hope we added it at an appropriately dramatic place, and it is enjoyable... I don't want to say any more than that for fear of spoiling things.  Bit I'll say in spoiler tags,

Sounds good as well... In my game, I met Faldorn, she is a base druid. Not planning to make her a shadow druid?

 

On 4/27/2020 at 6:13 PM, subtledoctor said:

Yes, there are two different kits for priests of Tempus.

What I mean is that I get 1 kit of "Cleric of Tempus" and 2 of "Priest of Tempus"...

 

On 4/27/2020 at 6:13 PM, subtledoctor said:

100% compatible.

Great! This was the only drawback I found in DR, as it was not fully compatible with SpellRev... Therfore I had to skip DR...

 

On 4/27/2020 at 6:24 PM, subtledoctor said:

Druids get a single chance each day to summon a spirit animal, same as what the Totemic Druid can do multiple times per day.  These spirit animals are unchanged from the vanilla game - the level 1 spirit animal is the same as what a vanilla Totemic Druid can summon at level 1.

As you said, it is not that powerful per se, but along with the several small improvements you guys made in the druid class, like the access to longbow, early shapeshifting, access to many mage spells etc... I'm just afraid that it might lead to less balance in game comparing with other classes.

 

On 4/27/2020 at 6:24 PM, subtledoctor said:

I can take a look at the balance of the animal shapeshifts.  They start fairly weak (simple wolf) and grow in power as the druid reaches higher levels (dire wolf, lion, bear).  I didn't find them to be that powerful - when I used Jaheira in shapeshifted form, I found that her AC was pretty bad and she tended to take a lot of damage.

See Khalid (Fighter in plate, with ring of protection and +1 AC from helmet) and Jaheira (Druid into wolf form). They both have 3400 xp ; They have same AC, almost same Damage range, almost same amount of HP, and Jaheira has a better Thac0...

Of course, later on, as the levels increase, the Fighters will become better in combat, but in these levels (I would say 3rd to 5th), druid rocks!

Edited April 28, 2020 by Marvin

[Marvin]

On 4/27/2020 at 6:24 PM, subtledoctor said:

That's the SR spell Battering Ram (or whatever it's called).  I think it's level 2 by default, your priest may get it earlier as a special kit perk, having "focus access" to that spell.  Or maybe we made it level 1 to balance the spheres?  I forget.  The spell might seem great now but it doesn't scale - it become pretty useless by later on, eclipesd by Magic Missile as early as 5th level.

As you said, this spell (battering ram) is powerful in small levels, then loses its interest.

 

On 4/27/2020 at 6:24 PM, subtledoctor said:

Pretty sure you are describing the innate abilities for the priest of Tyr, which are the same as in the unmodded game.  Talk to the devs...

My bad...

 

On 4/27/2020 at 6:24 PM, subtledoctor said:

We don't change any SR spells, except to occasionally move one to a different spell level.  The sphere system incorporates SR spells though, since I think SR spells are pretty great.  It also incorporates the spells from IWD. 

[subtledoctor]

6 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Are you sure? Could [DR alignmnt.2da bug] be what is causing MnG problems? What part of FnP fixes it?

Very highly doubt it.  It is fixed in the ALWAYS block of FnP, so installation of any little bit of FnP will make sure alginmnt.2da is in good shape.

If you're concerned about it, you could skip the DR Druid Remix.  All it adds is a single kit, the Oozemaster, which I never use.

6 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Those in bold are the ones I care about using, is it only those that you mention that are missing from FnP?

• divine_remix:103:Install Silverstar of Selune Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:106:Install Nightcloak of Shar Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:107:Install Holy Strategist of the Red Knight Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:109:Install Battleguard of Tempus Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:112:Install Painbearer of Ilmater Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:115:Install Firewalker of Kossuth Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:118:Install Authlim of Iyachtu Xvim Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:121:Install Lorekeeper of Oghma Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:124:Install Heartwarder of Sune Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:127:Install Feywarden of Corellon Cleric Kit
• divine_remix:130:Install Strifeleader of Cyric Cleric Kit

FnP comes with kits for Shar, Tempus, and (I think) Cyric.  You can skip DR if that's all you want; but if you like the DR versions better, you can install them from DR and disable the FnP kit in the FnP .ini file (edit it and drop a copy in /override before running PI), and then use NPC_EE or SCS or EEKeeper to assign the kits DR to NPCs.

[4udr4n]

42 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

you could skip the DR Druid Remix

Already removed that. For now I'm going to ditch all of DR, it doesn't add much over FnP.

[subtledoctor]

Small update to fix the Hivekeeper spirit summon.  Also added "silent = 1" to a bunch of ALTER_EFFECT and CLONE_EFFECT commands, so there should be fewer needless warnings during installation.

  

4 hours ago, 4udr4n said:

Already removed that. For now I'm going to ditch all of DR, it doesn't add much over FnP.

The Feywarden of Corellon Larethian is amazing with FnP, if you play with elves.  Specialization with longswords and longbows, plus elves' racial bonus, with the already-decent cleric thac0, and full priest spellcasting with single-class XP advancement = pretty damn effective team member.  It was great in IWDEE.

Edited April 29, 2020 by subtledoctor

[Marvin]

Hi,

Speaking about the DR remix kits, how does the FnP sphere system applies to them?

[subtledoctor]

I have updated the mod to version 0.79.11. This makes the following changes:

• Fixes the spontaneous casting function working with the sphere system.
• Adds some kit descriptions (thanks @4udr4n!).
• Kits now appear in the character generation menus with their proper kit names, instead of just "Cleric of [deity]."
• Add some icons for spells that were missing icons (except upon inspection, they weren't missing icons, the code was there and it looked fine and I don't know why they icons were showing but... hopefully now they should be).
• Modified the Cleric of Azuth kit, removing the dumb and buggy and unsophisticated old "cast wizard spells with cleric slots" mechanic.  Now it gets a casting level bonus, and the ability to use arcane scrolls and wands, and the Identification innate ability is fixed and now uses a new version of @Bubb's UI-based identification, allowing the cleric to, at higher levels, identify more than one item with a single use of the ability.

Thisa should hopefully be the last version in the 0.79 series.  From here, any energy I manage to put into this should go toward updating the 0.80 series with all these fixes/features, and testing it to get out a proper release. 

On 5/1/2020 at 7:28 AM, Marvin said:

Speaking about the DR remix kits, how does the FnP sphere system applies to them?

Not sure what you mean by "how."  The sphere system applies to DR kits just like it applies to FnP kits, giving each one access to spells and, if you choose, modified weapon use.

[Marvin]

On 5/9/2020 at 7:12 AM, subtledoctor said:

Not sure what you mean by "how."  The sphere system applies to DR kits just like it applies to FnP kits, giving each one access to spells and, if you choose, modified weapon use.

What I mean is that the spheres FnP uses are not the same used by DR. Example : The Holy Strategist of DR has Major access to charm, combat, divination, guardian, healing, law, protection and war spheres. Among those, Combat, Divination, Guardian, Healing and law are not there in FnP sphere system (according to the first post of this same discussion). How do you deal that issue?

[Guest Nyed]

Hi @subtledoctor,

I'm sorry if this has been asked elsewhere but is spontaneous casting available to multiclass sorcerer/cleric ? (for both the sorcerer and cleric aspects). If not is this something you are considering implementing ? 

Thanks a lot !

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, Marvin said:

What I mean is that the spheres FnP uses are not the same used by DR. Example : The Holy Strategist of DR has Major access to charm, combat, divination, guardian, healing, law, protection and war spheres. Among those, Combat, Divination, Guardian, Healing and law are not there in FnP sphere system (according to the first post of this same discussion). How do you deal that issue?

That list is only applicable to the DR sphere system. If you use the DR system, DR kits get those spheres. If you use the FnP sphere system, DR kits get a selection of FnP spheres. Deity spheres in FnP are described here. 

1 hour ago, Guest Nyed said:

Hi @subtledoctor,

I'm sorry if this has been asked elsewhere but is spontaneous casting available to multiclass sorcerer/cleric ? (for both the sorcerer and cleric aspects). If not is this something you are considering implementing ? 

 It didn’t work before because they both use the same system to track spell slots. But I modified them to use two different stars to track slots. So I think you can do it now. (I haven’t actually played it through the game, though.)