Cahir's EET Epic Run Mod Order help request

[Cahir]

Going back to the point of modding for your OS. I think I read somewhere, that @Bubb is working to update EEex to work for Mac and Linux (that's why he slowed down implementing new stuff), so there's hope you would be able to try those few fancy mods (and IWD-in-EET if it finally sees the light of the day) and most importandly you could use those new cool functionalities im modding. Finger cross, cause I cannot imagine what you could possibly can achieve wih those new opcodes and functions! 

[subtledoctor]

36 minutes ago, Cahir said:

Going back to the point of modding for your OS. I think I read somewhere, that @Bubb is working to update EEex to work for Mac and Linux (that's why he slowed down implementing new stuff), so there's hope you would be able to try those few fancy mods (and IWD-in-EET if it finally sees the light of the day) and most importandly you could use those new cool functionalities im modding. Finger cross, cause I cannot imagine what you could possibly can achieve wih those new opcodes and functions! 

EEex will never be able to install on iOS, and I cannot imagine playing these games on a regular computer anymore. (Moving a pointer around the screen, oh so precisely, and then clicking to represent touching that area on the screen, instead of just touching the screen?  No.)  So I doubt EEex will ever be something that will interest me.  Nothing against Bubb's work - it's great.  Just, the touchscreen user experience and vastly increased portability trumps almost anything else.  (And anyway, I've managed to do about 1/4 of the EEex stuff without resorting to executable hacks.)

[Cahir]

1 minute ago, subtledoctor said:

EEex will never be able to install on iOS, and I cannot imagine playing these games on a regular computer anymore. (Moving a pointer around the screen, oh so precisely, and then clicking to represent touching that area on the screen, instead of just touching the screen?  No.)  So I doubt EEex will ever be something that will interest me.  Nothing against Bubb's work - it's great.  Just, the touchscreen user experience and vastly increased portability trumps almost anything else.  (And anyway, I've managed to do about 1/4 of the EEex stuff without resorting to executable hacks.)

May I ask why it's not be usable only IOS? I don't know technical stuff but AFAIK the game can be modded on Android, right? So why it could not be possible to mod on IOS? I thought it would be matter of you modding the game Mac and then copy all modded stuff to IOS. At least I thought this is the method of porting mods to Android. 

[4udr4n]

Does this help you doc? https://github.com/aVENGER981/Wizard-Slayer-Rebalancing/releases

[Cahir]

1 minute ago, 4udr4n said:

Does this help you doc? https://github.com/aVENGER981/Wizard-Slayer-Rebalancing/releases

I think the newest version is 1.14, so it's missing the newest version  which (I think) is only available to download from SHS. 

[subtledoctor]

8 hours ago, Cahir said:

May I ask why it's not be usable only IOS? I don't know technical stuff but AFAIK the game can be modded on Android, right? So why it could not be possible to mod on IOS? I thought it would be matter of you modding the game Mac and then copy all modded stuff to IOS. At least I thought this is the method of porting mods to Android. 

You can mod normal things on iOS - anything in the /override, /sounds, /portraits, /worldmap, and similar folders.  But that's adding files to the game, and loading those files when the game launches.  EEex alters the game executable itself; iOS 1) won't give you access to the game executables to change them, and 2) likely wouldn't launch launch an altered executable if you somehow got it onto your device.  This is all down to Apple's dumb paranoia - it drives me crazy that they won't allow a kind of "power user mode" with reduced restrictions.  But it's what we have to live with.  For me, the EEs have allowed so much more to be modded in the traditional way than you could on the old engine - between the new opcodes and script actions and the UI modding stuff, we can do crazy stuff - so I don't really feel a need for the extra little bit that EEex affords.  Certainly not enough that I would lug around a 3-5 lb. laptop and play the game with a mouse (this game is particularly awful for people with carpal tunnel issues) vs. whipping out my 0.66 lb. paperback-sized tablet and using a comfortable touchscreen.

[Cahir]

2 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

You can mod normal things on iOS - anything in the /override, /sounds, /portraits, /worldmap, and similar folders.  But that's adding files to the game, and loading those files when the game launches.  EEex alters the game executable itself; iOS 1) won't give you access to the game executables to change them, and 2) likely wouldn't launch launch an altered executable if you somehow got it onto your device.  This is all down to Apple's dumb paranoia - it drives me crazy that they won't allow a kind of "power user mode" with reduced restrictions.  But it's what we have to live with.  For me, the EEs have allowed so much more to be modded in the traditional way than you could on the old engine - between the new opcodes and script actions and the UI modding stuff, we can do crazy stuff - so I don't really feel a need for the extra little bit that EEex affords.  Certainly not enough that I would lug around a 3-5 lb. laptop and play the game with a mouse (this game is particularly awful for people with carpal tunnel issues) vs. whipping out my 0.66 lb. paperback-sized tablet and using a comfortable touchscreen.

But then, why not buy a decent android tablet?Sure you would find something that suits your needs and don't pay as much as for Apple hardware. But then again, there is probably a reason why Apple is much more popular in Statesv than in Europe. In Poland Apple products are somewhat exclusive because of horrendously high prices. Anyway just asking, I was always curious why people prefer IOS over Android despite all those stupid Apple policies. 

Back on topic though, is it worth installing the tweaks from Tweaks Anthology that loosen restrictions for using weapons for dual or multiclass on top of Unearthed Arcana mods? Or tweaks that liberalizes race restrictions? I mean it's hard for me to follow sometimes if some tweaks are not overlapping each other. I didn't see those tweaks on your list, so I wonder if you don't like them or those are not neccesary because UA mods cover the same ground. 

[subtledoctor]

I think it's harder to mod things on Android than it is on iOS - executable hacks aside, features of iOS make it fairly easy to mod the game there.  Plus I have an iPad anyway, I uses it for work, and for reading, and for media consumption, and... well, a lot.  And it's 5 years old and still functioning great.  If I want a new one, I can get one for ~$250 over here, which is a pretty great price for such a useful and long-lasting piece of hardware.  Maybe I could find an Android tablet for slightly less than that, but they generally seems to be POS with poor battery life and short lifespans and nonexistent OS updates and security issues and... etc.  Plus I'm not about to spend cash on a single-use device just for this game.  I already have a bunch of workflows with my iPad, I see no compelling reason to change all of that.

CDTweaks: liberalizing race restrictions is a fine idea.  Stuff to do with weapons or proficiencies, I would ocnsider as alternatives to the Scales of Balance proficiency components.  Use one or the other.  (The exception, which I think is mentioned in the SoB readme, is subcomponent 1 of the CDTweaks "Alter Proficiency System."  All it does is merge morning stars with maces; you can then install SoB on top of that for further merging.  The other CDtweaks subcomponents - the BG1 system, or the IWD system, etc. - should be seen as alternatives to SoB.  In  those cases don't use both.

[Cahir]

14 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I think it's harder to mod things on Android than it is on iOS - executable hacks aside, features of iOS make it fairly easy to mod the game there.  Plus I have an iPad anyway, I uses it for work, and for reading, and for media consumption, and... well, a lot.  And it's 5 years old and still functioning great.  If I want a new one, I can get one for ~$250 over here, which is a pretty great price for such a useful and long-lasting piece of hardware.  Maybe I could find an Android tablet for slightly less than that, but they generally seems to be POS with poor battery life and short lifespans and nonexistent OS updates and security issues and... etc.  Plus I'm not about to spend cash on a single-use device just for this game.  I already have a bunch of workflows with my iPad, I see no compelling reason to change all of that.

CDTweaks: liberalizing race restrictions is a fine idea.  Stuff to do with weapons or proficiencies, I would ocnsider as alternatives to the Scales of Balance proficiency components.  Use one or the other.  (The exception, which I think is mentioned in the SoB readme, is subcomponent 1 of the CDTweaks "Alter Proficiency System."  All it does is merge morning stars with maces; you can then install SoB on top of that for further merging.  The other CDtweaks subcomponents - the BG1 system, or the IWD system, etc. - should be seen as alternatives to SoB.  In  those cases don't use both.

Thanks, that was the information I needed. I tend to overuse tweaks, because each single one seems useful. And then I fire up a game and see weird stuff like blank proficiciency rows etc. I think it's because I combined IR stuff with SoB's...

As for IPad, fair enough. As I've said I always used Android hardware, because it's more popular where I live. So I heard, though, that IPad batteries are the best. I never played IW games on IPad, I tried SoD on my Samsung Galaxy S9, but the screen is to small for my fingers and I find it uncomfortable to play on phone screen. But I do appreciate the possibility of playing on couch. 

[Cahir]

@subtledoctor let's say I would like to change the name of Proficiency, where should I do it? Is it sufficient to change the name in setup.tra? I love Weapon Proficiency Overhaul a lot in general, but the one thing I like more from Tweaks Anthology is the more flavorous naming convention. For instance I'd change clubs/maces to blunt etc. The naming convention in SoB tweak is a bit u Immersive, if you know what I mean. 

[Cahir]

Ok, I Initially haven't considered to install feats component from M&G, but now I've read the Readme thoroughtly and I loved it. This would allows me to shape NPC thieves however I like. What's more interesting, I am now really tempted to install Will to Power too!

Question, assuming that I'd install a component from Tweaks Anthology that would allow me to dual-class wild mages, can I dual-class wild mage with psionicist kit? Because I have this crazy idea to dual-class Neera to Psionicist in BG2EE, like she discovered another latent powers, this time power of mind. 

[subtledoctor]

1 hour ago, Cahir said:

Ok, I Initially haven't considered to install feats component from M&G, but now I've read the Readme thoroughly and I loved it. This would allows me to shape NPC thieves however I like. What's more interesting, I am now really tempted to install Will to Power too!

Question, assuming that I'd install a component from Tweaks Anthology that would allow me to dual-class wild mages, can I dual-class wild mage with psionicist kit? Because I have this crazy idea to dual-class Neera to Psionicist in BG2EE, like she discovered another latent powers, this time power of mind. 

My first guess is, probably not.  It is really designed as a multiclass kit, not something you take after you already have some aspects of other kits.

On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe it would work fine!  It's really hard to say.  Just keep in mind, you can only ever have one kit.  Taking a kit on your dual-class would remove the first kit (wild mage, in this case).  I don't know what that would do to her Wild Mage characteristics, like chance of wild surge or casting level variations. I also don't know how you would do it.  I guess there are a couple ways:

1) Have Neera dual-class to cleric, then advance to get her mage class back, then give her the d5_mckt.spl NPC_EE ability, and use it to get the Cerebremancer psion kit.  I'm not sure if this would actually work.

2) Since Neera is already a mage, and the Cerebremancer kit starts as a mage kit (then it automatically turns you into a cleric/mage), you could simply have Neera use NPC_EE to change to a Cerebremancer, and then use the "activate psionics" ability.  This would be a lot like dualling her into a psion, so you could simply play as a wild mage as long as you want, and wait to use the NPC_EE ability when you want to dual.  Note, her wizard class will continue advancing after doing this, unlike a real dual-class. BUT, I don't know if any aspect of her wild mage class would remain.  This could be bad - if you get to keep NRD but you're not a wild mage...

If you're not going to have anyone else use the Cerebremancer kit, you could go into kitlist.2da and add the wild mage usability bit to the cerebremancer.  Basically, find the cerebremancer kit in the list, and in the column that looks like "0x000040__" change it to "0x800040__"

No guarantees on any of this, but if you want to mess around, you might end up having fun.

3 hours ago, Cahir said:

@subtledoctor let's say I would like to change the name of Proficiency, where should I do it? Is it sufficient to change the name in setup.tra? I love Weapon Proficiency Overhaul a lot in general, but the one thing I like more from Tweaks Anthology is the more flavorous naming convention. For instance I'd change clubs/maces to blunt etc. The naming convention in SoB tweak is a bit u Immersive, if you know what I mean. 

IIRC, proficiency strings are controlled by the string references in the NAME_REF and DESC_REF columns in WEAPPROF.2da.  You can edit those manually with any decent text editor... but you have to input the number of a valid string in DIALOG.tlk.  If you want to define the strings yourself, it might require adding new strings to DIALOG.tlk.  The best way to do that is with Weidu.  But, with Weidu, it is pretty damn simple.  You sound like you're still a few days or so away from having your installation settled and complete; in the intervening time, I'll see if I can whip up a little mod that will let you define the strings yourself.

[Cahir]

6 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

My first guess is, probably not.  It is really designed as a multiclass kit, not something you take after you already have some aspects of other kits.

On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe it would work fine!  It's really hard to say.  Just keep in mind, you can only ever have one kit.  Taking a kit on your dual-class would remove the first kit (wild mage, in this case).  I don't know what that would do to her Wild Mage characteristics, like chance of wild surge or casting level variations. I also don't know how you would do it.  I guess there are a couple ways:

1) Have Neera dual-class to cleric, then advance to get her mage class back, then give her the d5_mckt.spl NPC_EE ability, and use it to get the Cerebremancer psion kit.  I'm not sure if this would actually work.

2) Since Neera is already a mage, and the Cerebremancer kit starts as a mage kit (then it automatically turns you into a cleric/mage), you could simply have Neera use NPC_EE to change to a Cerebremancer, and then use the "activate psionics" ability.  This would be a lot like dualling her into a psion, so you could simply play as a wild mage as long as you want, and wait to use the NPC_EE ability when you want to dual.  Note, her wizard class will continue advancing after doing this, unlike a real dual-class. BUT, I don't know if any aspect of her wild mage class would remain.  This could be bad - if you get to keep NRD but you're not a wild mage...

If you're not going to have anyone else use the Cerebremancer kit, you could go into kitlist.2da and add the wild mage usability bit to the cerebremancer.  Basically, find the cerebremancer kit in the list, and in the column that looks like "0x000040__" change it to "0x800040__"

No guarantees on any of this, but if you want to mess around, you might end up having fun.

IIRC, proficiency strings are controlled by the string references in the NAME_REF and DESC_REF columns in WEAPPROF.2da.  You can edit those manually with any decent text editor... but you have to input the number of a valid string in DIALOG.tlk.  If you want to define the strings yourself, it might require adding new strings to DIALOG.tlk.  The best way to do that is with Weidu.  But, with Weidu, it is pretty damn simple.  You sound like you're still a few days or so away from having your installation settled and complete; in the intervening time, I'll see if I can whip up a little mod that will let you define the strings yourself.

Yeah, that part with Neera sounds commplicated I think I'll change her to something simpler. Question: to be able to change her kit via NPC_EE last component to class-specific Psion kit, do I need to change her kit via some other mod to a kit from the same class or I can change her kit from any other kit? For example if I want to change her to a Soulblade do I need to change her class to fighter or a fighter kit first or not?

As for the second topic, you're my man! Yes I'm definitely days before I complete my set up Especially that I have limited amount of time during the week for this. So I'll be doing my next test over the weekend.

[subtledoctor]

9 minutes ago, Cahir said:

Yeah, that part with Neera sounds commplicated I think I'll change her to something simpler. Question: to be able to change her kit via NPC_EE last component to class-specific Psion kit, do I need to change her kit via some other mod to a kit from the same class or I can change her kit from any other kit? For example if I want to change her to a Soulblade do I need to change her class to fighter or a fighter kit first or not?

See, the problem is, Will to Power is way more complicated than most mods, and the way the kits work are quite complicated.  In some ways it's kind of the pinnacle of everything I've done with mods. 

First: you choose a psion kit in the single-class thief, fighter, ranger, or wizard class.  The psion kits are strictly multiclasses (multiclass clerics, to be precise), but I didn't want them to be lost among a hundred multiclass cleric kits added by Faiths & Powers, plus it just seems weird looking in the clerics section to be a psion.

So you start out as a single-class.  Then you use an innate ability to activate your psionics, which converts you to multiclass and sets up a few technical systems, like your Psionic Strength Points and recording which powers you know and don't know.  It gives you the five base powers, and then when you level up your psion class you can learn more.

If you jump right into the multiclass kit with NPC_EE or EEKeeper or something, I suspect it will skip some of that and it will be broken.  Probably.  The best way to convert to a psion with an NPC would be to start as a single-class thief/fighter/ranger/mage, and convert to the "starter" psionic kit.

(Wow, I just realized, this would be an amazing option for Valygar - psionics being self-powered and kind of the antithesis of magic.  And he's already a single-class ranger, so it would probably be pretty easy to set him up as a Psypher...)

[Cahir]

2 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

See, the problem is, Will to Power is way more complicated than most mods, and the way the kits work are quite complicated.  In some ways it's kind of the pinnacle of everything I've done with mods. 

First: you choose a psion kit in the single-class thief, fighter, ranger, or wizard class.  The psion kits are strictly multiclasses (multiclass clerics, to be precise), but I didn't want them to be lost among a hundred multiclass cleric kits added by Faiths & Powers, plus it just seems weird looking in the clerics section to be a psion.

So you start out as a single-class.  Then you use an innate ability to activate your psionics, which converts you to multiclass and sets up a few technical systems, like your Psionic Strength Points and recording which powers you know and don't know.  It gives you the five base powers, and then when you level up your psion class you can learn more.

If you jump right into the multiclass kit with NPC_EE or EEKeeper or something, I suspect it will skip some of that and it will be broken.  Probably.  The best way to convert to a psion with an NPC would be to start as a single-class thief/fighter/ranger/mage, and convert to the "starter" psionic kit.

(Wow, I just realized, this would be an amazing option for Valygar - psionics being self-powered and kind of the antithesis of magic.  And he's already a single-class ranger, so it would probably be pretty easy to set him up as a Psypher...)

Ok but do I need to start as fighter to convert NPC to Soulblade or Thief to covnert him to Psypher, ot can I start from any other single class? Or if I want to change Neera from current Wild mage to Chaos sorcerer from @argent77's mod, can I change it directly from wild mage or can I need to set her up as a sorcerer first and then change it to Wild Sorcerer using NPC_EE magic?

BTW. I think Cerebremancer is missing from EET_NPC readme. Otherwise I would probably instantly thought about it as a one of options for Neera