DavidW Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Not sure why I said 'arcane casters'. SCS arcane and divine casters use IWD spells (and SR spells). I don't use every added spell, but then I don't use every vanilla spell either. Quote Link to comment
jastey Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 @Endarire why do you write that Region of Terror's kits do not work for BGII:EE? Quote Link to comment
Endarire Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) I wrote what I saw in the documentation. I've not yet played with these mods enough to fairly state otherwise. Edited September 7, 2020 by Endarire Quote Link to comment
Clockwerk Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 @jastey I played with it and the kits simply don't install if the game detected is BG2EE. However the add_kit_ee library written by Wisp is included in the mod for the installation of the two NPC-exclusive kits so I'm not sure what is the problem exactly. Quote Link to comment
jastey Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Endarire said: I wrote what I saw in the documentation. I've not yet played with these mods enough to fairly state otherwise. Ah, yes it gives a warning in the readme indeed. I wasn't aware of that. @Clockwerkthank you, I just wanted to make sure it's not a bug report that needs to addressing. Quote Link to comment
Endarire Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 Updated the original post to 1.2 with Out! Brief Candlekeep and other notes. Quote Link to comment
Endarire Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 Updated the original post to 1.4. (It also includes 1.3 material.) TDD/TDDz and Chaos Sorcerers are officially mentioned now in the original post. Quote Link to comment
jastey Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 On 9/5/2020 at 11:48 PM, Endarire said: -Northern Tales of the Sword Coast (NTotSC) Adds Fiery Cloud and Skeleton Guard as arcane spells with scrolls in Sorcerous Sundries (Baldur's Gate city). How does this 50 spells per level work. As far as I can see, NTotSC only adds the spells as spell scrolls, but doesn't add it to the spell select / character creation screen. Do they still count? Quote Link to comment
Endarire Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) @jastey From what I've heard/read regarding this limit from others (and people like OlvynChuru, Grammarsalad, and subtledoctor could tell you more), the Infinity Engine EE and pre-EE (but not EEex) has a hardcoded limit of 50 spells of each type (arcane/divine) per spell level. HLAs (high level abilities) also count against this limit, like summon planetar and improved alacrity counting as level 9 arcane spells. If this limit is exceeded, certain characters can't level up/choose spells. This limit was originally included in BG1 in the late 90s, probably because there were nowhere near 50 spells per level but the devs wanted to include that option. The limit is probably 50 to allow for 50 spells as spells and 50 spells as scroll versions of these spells.Weidu abides by this limit, but certain abilities like spells added via the Olvyn Spell Tool can exceed this limit due to not using standard file names. The Weidu documentation explains more about how it works, including the ADD_SPELL command. Edited February 12, 2021 by Endarire Quote Link to comment
subtledoctor Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, jastey said: How does this 50 spells per level work? EDIT - I'll put this at the top of the post instead of at the bottom: NTotSC is fine in this regard, you don't have to worry. To clarify what Endarire said: this is the limit for which spells are available to know/memorize during character generation, and which spells are available to be learned by sorcerers and shamans. Your typical spell is something like this: Grease --> SPWI101.SPL That spell will be listed in SPELL.IDS as well: 2101 WIZARD_GREASE The "2" in the IDS number means "this is a wizard spell, with file prefix SPWI," and the "101" means "its file suffix is 101." So any script can all for a character to cast WIZARD_GREASE, and that character will cast SPWI101.SPL, i.e. Grease. Some spells are in SPELL.IDS, but are also listed in HIDESPL.2DA. These spells are available for scripts, but will not appear for learning at CharGen or at level-up by sorcerers/shamans. Nahal's Reckless Dweomer is an example. Only 50 spells get this treatment; if a spell is added to the game as SPWI151.SPL, no matter whether it is added to SPELL.IDS, it will not be available at CharGen or to sorcerers. Anyone can of course add their own spells with their modder prefix; for spells learnable by scroll this is easy, since you can bypass that system. Any wizard will find my mod-added scroll and learn "D5NUSPEL.SPL" and it will go in your spellbook and you can cast it normally. But that spell will not be available at CharGen or to sorcerers. Some mods add new spells via the more restricted way, in order for sorcerers to be able to cast them. The new version of Spell Revisions adds a few spells at each spell level. Certain components of Tome & Blood adds a couple new spells this way, e.g. there is one option to change Mirror Image to a 3rd-level spell. It doesn't actially alter the spell, rather it adds a new 3rd-level spell and puts the original in HIDESPL.2DA. This is so that players will get the new version, while any scripts for NPCs that call the old version will function. (If you change the spell level without changing the IDS value, attempts to cast it can fail; if you change the IDS value, it can break scripts.) This is a method that functions very well, but as you can see it uses up one of those precious 50 spell slots available to sorcerers. I play with IWDification, Spell Revisions, Faiths & Powers, and Tome & Blood, and there is still plenty of room for more spells - probably 10-20 free spots per level still. Some of the old "mega" mods would eat up this space very quickly... I remember installing the old versions of DSotSC and/or TDD, and afterward I would not install my own mods! (Because Weidu at the time would fail the install if a mod tried to add a new spell as SPWIx51.) I don't recall, but Galactygon's SpellPackB6 might have similarly pushed the limit. Currently, the only mod that pushes past this limit is OlvynSpells, which adds something like 200 new spells to the game. As Endarire said, Olvyn created a new system to allow those spells to be learned at CharGen/by sorcerers even if they use a modding prefix and are outside the normal 1-50 IDS number range. I don't love that system, because it uses a UI hack that might create compatibility issues with other UI hacks, and because it doesn't create a new centralized repository of just what spells sorcerers should get, so other mods (like mine) have no way of knowing how to treat sorcerers' spell lists. (My feeling is that modders should stick to the original system, and players should simply be choosy about what spells they add to their game, until a system is devised that is easy for all modders to hook into.) Edited February 12, 2021 by subtledoctor Quote Link to comment
jastey Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 @subtledoctor thank you very much for the clearification! Very appreciated. @Endarire I'd suggest removing mods where the spells do not count to the limit from this list, or listing them in a separate paragraph so people know they were considered. Quote Link to comment
Greenhorn Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 From what I can see "Stone of Askavar" also adds several new arcane spells. Quote Link to comment
Endarire Posted February 15, 2021 Author Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) @subtledoctor What do you mean by "NTotSC is fine in this regard?"@Greenhorn Where do you notice Stone of Askavar's new spells? Edited February 15, 2021 by Endarire Quote Link to comment
Greenhorn Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On my current game with this mod installed @Endarire. You can see details here if you want: https://lilura1.blogspot.com/2018/07/Baldurs-Gate-Grey-Clan-and-Stone-of-Askavar-Item-Code-List.html. Quote Link to comment
subtledoctor Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 15 hours ago, Endarire said: What do you mean by "NTotSC is fine in this regard?" It was stated in an earlier thread that NTotSC adds spells that are only learnable from scrolls - from what it sounds like, they are not available to sorcerers, not added with the ADD_SPELL command, so they don't use up any of the 50 precious SPWI slots. Quote Link to comment
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