IR V2 release

[Demivrgvs]

Gauntlets of Ogre Power

...are still too powerful

Of course they are... Fighters with 18STR will be better with it. Fighter with 17 STR as well. ( And i don't speak about the pitiable guy who got this item in BG2...)

Futhermore, characters can accumulate Gauntlets and belt no? +5 or 6 STR O_o

Well, in vanilla a character with STR 10 could easily increase it by +9/+12 with Girdles of Giant Strength! And even a character with STR 18 could reach 22 or 25 with a single item. You can do similar things with IR yes, but you have to use a character with at least a decent STR to start from, and then you probably have to use multiple items to reach the same STR you could have reached with a single item before.

 

That being said, I'll "nerf" the Gauntlets of Ogre Power reducing it to either +2 (without the 100 exceptional strength) or +1/100.

 

another problem for me is we are taking about increase power of:

Gauntlets of weapon skill : if +2AC or +2thac0 (that why i would like a -1damage penality)

Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise ; -1thac0 + 3 damage ==> a player with a minimum of brain will use them on a pure fighter (pure fighters don't care about +1 tach0 or -1thac0) That's why i would like only +2 damage ony and no thac0 penality....

Gauntlets of weapon skill: as I said, the AC bonus will be +1 not +2, and none vs. missiles. It shouldn't really be much more powerful than +1 thac0 in BG1, but at least it remains quite useful through most of the game, unlike the original bonus that gets pretty uneffective for high level fighters

Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise: compared to vanilla's ones they would have -2 to thac0 (-3 off-hand) for +1 damage, I cannot see how this can be a noticeable increase of power. My previous suggestion was even more harsh imo, as it would have been -3 thac0 (-5 off hand) for a +2 damage.

 

 

BG Difficulty

Take into account that I cannot take each item and make it extremely less effective only to make the game harder, because in this case only few, hardcore players would use IR. Nerfing vanilla's overpowered items was absolutely necessary, and I do agree on reducing many items power level (I have put much effort on doing it, especially lately), but I won't make the game extremely harder via IR. This is not Improved Anvil, and I prefer to make IR so that any kind of player can enjoy it, from veterans to noobs, from unskilled or roleplying-only players to hardcore, challenge seeking players.

 

The game is less exploitable and more balanced with IR and SR, but to make it harder you should rely on SCS. Last but not least, some issues about balance and challenge you still can't "fix" is tied to classes and kits. Things like:

- most Kits have multiple bonuses and no significant penalties (Berserker, Cavalier, Undead Hunter, and so on)

- dualled Kensai (+eventual UAI to make it even more cheesy removing Kensai's restrictions)

- dualled Wizard Slayer/Thief + UAI (how to make a pathetic class into an extremely powerful one)

- the list is pretty long on this matter imo

 

Fighters already rule over wizards, they shouldn't get more benefits imo.

I suppose you're not talking about high levels. I really don't thing fighters rule over things like Time Stop, Dragon's Breath, Improved Alacrity, Chain Contingency, ...

Imo fighters rule at low levels, are more or less balanced at mid levels, and start to be a little weaker at high levels unless equipped like gods.

[Ardanis]

Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise: compared to vanilla's ones they would have -2 to thac0 (-3 off-hand) for +1 damage

That's why I suggested 4 for both thac0 and dmg. So it'll be different from vanilla ones. Btw, with -4 penalty thieves may actually find it harder to stab, so the BS issue imho would be somewhat balanced. Or perhaps to try out BS penalty? Conceptually it seems logical, as swinging hard and at the same time aiming for a vital spot isn't the most easy trick to pull off.

 

 

I suppose you're not talking about high levels. I really don't thing fighters rule over things like Time Stop, Dragon's Breath, Improved Alacrity, Chain Contingency, ...

Imo fighters rule at low levels, are more or less balanced at mid levels, and start to be a little weaker at high levels unless equipped like gods.

Well, I was talking mainly about high levels.

WW allows for stable over 200 dmg per round. And it can be repeated over and over again, depending how many WWs PC has. Unlike wizards, who do possess similar charges but in more limited number. And WW is far easier control wise.

[Demivrgvs]

Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise: compared to vanilla's ones they would have -2 to thac0 (-3 off-hand) for +1 damage

That's why I suggested 4 for both thac0 and dmg. So it'll be different from vanilla ones. Btw, with -4 penalty thieves may actually find it harder to stab, so the BS issue imho would be somewhat balanced. Or perhaps to try out BS penalty? Conceptually it seems logical, as swinging hard and at the same time aiming for a vital spot isn't the most easy trick to pull off.

Why haven't I thinked about it? Yeah, a -1BS penalty is a perfect drawback if we want to keep these gauntlets usable by most classes instead of limiting it to pure fighters. I really wouldn't like fighter/thieves to "exploit" this item to improve their backstabbing abilities, I already don't like too much that they can backstab better than pure thieves.

Regarding the -4 thac0 penalty, it's not doable imo as it would make this item almost unusable through BG1, even by pure fighters.

 

I suppose you're not talking about high levels. I really don't thing fighters rule over things like Time Stop, Dragon's Breath, Improved Alacrity, Chain Contingency, ...

Imo fighters rule at low levels, are more or less balanced at mid levels, and start to be a little weaker at high levels unless equipped like gods.

Well, I was talking mainly about high levels.

WW allows for stable over 200 dmg per round. And it can be repeated over and over again, depending how many WWs PC has. Unlike wizards, who do possess similar charges but in more limited number. And WW is far easier control wise.

Well...very few players would states that a high level warrior is more powerful than an archmage. I'd dare to suppose Improved Anvil may have to do with your position.

 

Speking of WW, if I'll ever add HLAs to one of my mods I'd like to nerf both versions a little by adding a -4 damage penalty to WW, and a some similar though reduced penalty to GWW:

* WW: 10 attacks per round, -4 thac0, -4 damage

* GWW: 10 attacks per round, -4 thac0 or -4 damage or -2 thac0/damage

Alternatively a round of fatigue after using WW wouldn't be so bad imo, it would force the player to properly chose the right moment to use the ability.

Furthermore you may imagine that I don't even like that GWW makes WW "pointless", but perhaps I'm asking too much. Anyway...this is really off-topic.

 

- Gauntlets of Weapons expertise: i argument -1thac0 +3damage is a boost for pure fighters. better than +1thac0 +2 damage. Don't you think ? And why boost an item like that who is a bit too much powerfull in vanilla.

In terms of "power level" it would be less powerful than before, as I'd add more drawbacks than benefits.

If the item will be more useful for pure fighters because of their extremely good THAC0 I'd welcome it, as pure fighters currently are at disadvantage imo compared to multi or dual. The only benefit that pure fighters currently have is the THAC0 progression, if by using it we allow them to excel I think there's nothing wrong about it!

And as these items will probably remain usable by most classes, I have to keep them at least appealing for those classes too.

 

- Cumulate STR of belt and gauntlet = boost. But Demivrgvs was taking about break a belt of STR so maybe it's ok. i admit it's not easy to balance Gauntlets and belt coz only +1STR could gain as well 1+damage than +2thac0,+5damages. At least,limited a bit this sort of items should be ok and not radical at all imo.

Yeah, I'd like to replace at least one Girdle of Strength with something else (two eventually).

[DrAzTiK]

The only benefit that pure fighters currently have is the THAC0 progression, if by using it we allow them to excel I think there's nothing wrong about it!

humm ok ok.

 

But I still think that many players underestimate a bit the much more effectiveness of pure fighters for hit, damage, attack/round. Especially with a fixed grand mastery (BG2tweak ). But of course not everybody install this sort of fix ^^ And as all see, i also install composents who make the game more easier !! (but more balancing)

[Guest Confused Guest]

Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise

Am I missing something here, or are people suggesting that an item that grants you expertise in a weapon should actually make you worse at using that weapon? "Oh, these gauntlets make me an expert, for sure, except that it's harder to hit the enemy while using them". Eh?

[DrAzTiK]

It is a nice way for balancing and aid (a bit) pure fighters. Even if i don't find pure fighters to be a pain class, i must admit they are not the most privilegied class....

 

But yes it could be strange to have a penality for a Gauntlets who make you expert. It surprises me too at begining and that's why only I was suggesting only +2 damage and no thac0 bonus or penality for this item.^^

[Demivrgvs]

Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise

Am I missing something here, or are people suggesting that an item that grants you expertise in a weapon should actually make you worse at using that weapon? "Oh, these gauntlets make me an expert, for sure, except that it's harder to hit the enemy while using them". Eh?

Is it the name which confuses you? Because I'd like to change it. These gauntlets wouldn't make you worse at using a weapon, they would allow you to strike blows with enhanced power, sacrificing the precision.

 

After thinking about it a little more:

* -1 thac0, +2 damage could be the most balanced for BG1

* -2 thac0, +3 damage could be the most balanced for SoA

* -4 thac0, +4 damage could be the most balanced for ToB

 

I wouldn't like a plain +2 damage too much, but if anyone has another suggestion let me know. I'll give V2 items only one more day, after that any further change will probably have to wait V3.

[DrAzTiK]

* -1 thac0, +2 damage could be the most balanced for BG1

* -2 thac0, +3 damage could be the most balanced for SoA

* -4 thac0, +4 damage could be the most balanced for ToB

 

 

Perfect for me ^^ but how make this modifications in game ? We must choose one ?

 

I must go to ping pong now ^^

[Jarno Mikkola]

Gauntlets of the Heavy Hit, or some such bs. Now, remember that if you replace the items, it needs to be the BG1 model, as it's there too, that is if you are going to replace them. What you could actually do is to make them upgradeable... But still leave the original model to BG1, replace the SoA one with the new, and then make it upgradeable into ToB. That will need dialog, but that part can be of different mod.

[Salk]

Hello!

 

I understand that the items can't be perfectly balanced for BG1, SoA and ToB but we have to make a choice and I would go for the middle choice:

 

-2 THAC0, +3 Damage

 

My two cents!

[Guest Dirty Uncle Bertie]

FWIW, I'd much prefer -1 thac0, +2 damage. Actually, I'd prefer something else entirely, without any kind of negative. I dunno, I just don't fancy any item that worsens my character's ability to hit the enemy (apart from a tasty large shield!).

 

On an unrelated matter, I would be hugely appreciative if you would make a minor change to your 'Rebalanced Weapon Proficiencies' changes in the Weapon Changes component. As you may already know, on the proficiencies screen, the BG2 Tweak Pack component lists e.g. Katana on the left (that's just 'Katana' not 'Katana/Wakizashi') and Katana/Wakizashi in the text on the right. It does the same for all other proficiencies that cover more than one weapon.

 

Now, IR changes this so that it says 'Katana/Wakizashi' on the left instead of just 'Katana'. The problem here is that instead of 'Short Sword/Ninja-To' on the left, IR just has 'Short Sword', so it's not being consistent. Please, could you revert back to the BG2 Tweak Pack style instead?

[DrAzTiK]

A so long discussion, only about gauntlets lol...

[Shaitan]

Hello!

 

I understand that the items can't be perfectly balanced for BG1, SoA and ToB but we have to make a choice and I would go for the middle choice:

 

-2 THAC0, +3 Damage

 

My two cents!

 

Seems fine.

 

For those who play tutu with Hard time mod the gauntlets aren't so easy to get.

[DrAzTiK]

The best obtainable is in BG1 : a single warrior completely mad, nude and weak. (but a good alignment party is not supposed to kill him...)

[Ardanis]

Demivrgvs

 

Nope, it had nothing to do with IA. I knew that truth for me long before I played IA.

And I changed HLA tables so that GWW may be taken only once. Bigg once said there were no plans to further develop Refinements, so if you intend to attend HLAs expect me to lurk around a lot.

 

About Parry/Expertise - I just have thought about 3 E version. Maybe +2 AC and -1~-2 thac0?