IR V2 release

[DrAzTiK]

My humble opinion about gauntlets :

 

Gauntlets of Weapons Skill : +1thac0

 

Gauntlets of Weapons expertise(a bit too much powerfull even in SOA) :Only damage bonus + 2 ? (In BG1, this item is overpowed and too easy obtainable.)

 

 

Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization (a bit too much powerfull): with HLA in TOB , does fighters really need +1/2 Attack/round... SO maybe + 1 thac 0 and + 3 damage ?

Or only 1/2 attack/round and no bonus for thac0 and damage ?

 

 

Bracers of Archery : why boost this item ? +2thac0 is fine imo. (and It make it too strong in BG1)

 

EDIT : i have just seen you want making them so that they grant different combat style bonuses, so maybe forgot what i said lol

[Demivrgvs]

My humble opinion about gauntlets :...

 

EDIT : i have just seen you want making them so that they grant different combat style bonuses, so maybe forgot what i said lol

...currently I was thinking something like this:

 

Gauntlets of Weapon Skill

Parry: +1 bonus to AC (none vs. missile)

 

Notes: completely different and slightly more powerful than before. Ah...I would change them to use a gloves bam imported by IWD in order to free the current one and make the next two gauntlets different from each other (currently Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise and Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization use the very same icon). Would Gloves of Swordplay be a more appropriate name?

 

Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise

Power Attack: -2 thac0 (-4 to off-hand), +4 damage with melee weapons

 

Notes: alternatively we may reduce both penalties and damage output if the +4 seems too scary (e.g. -1 thac0, +3 damage). I would made the damage apply only to melee damage for both balancing and conceptual reasons. Ranged weapons generally have more attacks per round, and this weapon style is clearly based on strength, which shouldn't apply to most ranged attacks imo. Furthermore I don't want archers to prefer these gauntlets over the Bracers of Archery. Ah, the extra -2 thac0 to off-hand too is there both for balancing and conceptual reasons. Obviously adding damage to both hands and multiple attacks would result in them being extremely more effective, and I think a "power attack" style is much more suited to two handed weapons or single weapons. I think we should rename them somehow...

 

Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization

Equipped Abilities:

Flurry of Blows: +1/2 attack per round

 

Notes: they were too powerful imo, if most players think that I've nerfed them too much I may allow +1 or +2 thac0 bonus, but I wouldn't give them damage bonus on top of extra apr. I think we should rename them somehow...

 

Bracers of Archery

Bracers of Archery : why boost this item ? +2thac0 is fine imo. (and It make it too strong in BG1)

Comparing them to the others I'd say you're probably right about limiting them to only +2 to thac0, it gives them a power level more similar to them, while granting something (thac0 bonus) which is different from any other gauntlets.

 

P.S Speaking of usabilities...should the three gauntlets be restricted to warrior classes? A little "problem" behind this for example would be that a fighter/thief would be able to benefit from the extra damage while a plain thief not...and I don't think that making multiclasses more powerful is the right direction.

[DrAzTiK]

When you are speaking about Parry and Power Attack, it is an ability or permanent effects ?

 

Gauntlets of Weapon Skill :

 

+1 AC may be balanced even if personnaly, i like ability to boost a litlle thac0 for melee weapons for some characters...., very usufull for multiclassed, priests etc...

 

There is many (too much) way to got a better AC ( ring, cloak, amulet, shield) but not much to have a better thac0. I have always see gauntlets unique for this reasons.

 

 

Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization

 

+4 is scary yes.. And for specialised fighters with hight mastery and big strenght , thac0 is not a problem.

I still think only +2 damage should be ok... even with a -1thac0 penality...

 

Erf it's not easy to calculate real advantage for an item with bonus and penality for me .... That's why i don't like sometimes random effects too (20% chances to 1d3 if -2 saves lol)

 

All don't like maths, especially me...

[Salk]

Demivrgvs,

 

I see you have nerfed the bracers considerably. I approve your changes.

 

Personally I would halve penalties and reduce the damage for the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise: -1 THAC0 (-2 offhand), +3 damage.

 

Also I would add a bonus THAC0 of 1 point (2 is too much) to the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization.

 

And I would restrict the gauntlets to single or dual (but not multiclass) Warriors.

[Demivrgvs]

Gauntlets of Weapon Skill

When you are speaking about Parry and Power Attack, it is an ability or permanent effects?

 

+1 AC may be balanced even if personnaly, i like ability to boost a litlle thac0 for melee weapons for some characters...., very usufull for multiclassed, priests etc...

 

There is many (too much) way to got a better AC ( ring, cloak, amulet, shield) but not much to have a better thac0. I have always see gauntlets unique for this reasons.

You do have a point...I have to think about it. In that case I would opt for a +2 thac0 to melee weapons only (else the bracers would be pointless). Does any other player want to share his opinion on this matter? The sooner the better!

 

Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise

+4 is scary yes.. And for specialised fighters with hight mastery and big strenght , thac0 is not a problem.

I still think only +2 damage should be ok... even with a -1thac0 penality...

Personally I would halve penalties and reduce the damage for the Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise: -1 THAC0 (-2 offhand), +3 damage.

I think I prefer the latter solution...do you think even a +3 bonus to damage would be too much? A "mere" +2 with thac0 penalties would be too unappealing imo, I don't want to make an item that most players won't ever use or may even dislike to the point they don't install it.

 

Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization

Also I would add a bonus THAC0 of 1 point (2 is too much) to the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization.

I'd say only if we don't opt for making the Gauntlets of Weapon Skill grant thac0 bonus instead of AC.

 

I see you have nerfed the bracers considerably. I approve your changes.

Yeah, it seems like a new "secret" goal of future versions of IR will be making the game a little harder.

[Jarno Mikkola]

... dual but not multiclass Warriors.

I made a small edit...

There is no way of doing that, it's either pure class or multi/dual or both.

I want to warn you from reducing the Thac0 bonuses, as you are really hurting the mass as it's usually that the warriors can't hit their targets that gets them killed, not weather they do 31 or 33 damage.

[DrAzTiK]

You do have a point...I have to think about it. In that case I would opt for a +2 thac0 to melee weapons only (else the bracers would be pointless). Does any other player want to share his opinion on this matter? The sooner the better! wink.gif

 

and a high strengh increase more damages than thac0 .^^ That's also why i don't like too iincrease damage too much

Abour +2 thac0... Erf I must admit that it seems to be a lot for me for just a pair of gauntlets (same for damages) It is equivalent of + 2 warrior levels... But there is rings and gloak who gives +2AC,+ 2 saves so....after all we are in BG2....

 

 

Even if it's another problem, this items shall be too powerfull in BG1

[Jarno Mikkola]

About the +2 thac0... Erf I must admit that it seems to be a lot for me for just a pair of gauntlets (same for damages) It is equivalent of + 2 warrior levels...

Actually it's about 1000 Fighter levels at levels 20 beyond, unless we rebalance&replace the thac0.2da with something like this:

2DA V1.1
0
          1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9    10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25   26   27   28   29   30   31...
MAGE       20   20   20   19   19   19   18   18   18   17   17   17   16   16   16   15   15   15   14   14   14   13   13   13   12   12   12   11   11   10   10...
FIGHTER    20   19   18   17   16   15   14   13   12   11   10   9    8    7    6    5    5    4    4    3    3    2    2    1    1    0    0    -1   -1   -2   -2...
...

[DrAzTiK]

I 'am afraid don't understand what you say

 

About Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise :

-1thac0 penalize multiclass imo.

- don't you think only +2 damage should be ok ?

 

I must go to ping pong now

[Jarno Mikkola]

I 'am afraid don't understand what you say

Well, that the warriors Thac0 won't rice after the level 20, so you might as well be at level 1000 and you still wouldn't have the +2 bonus on your Thac0, that is unless we do something about the fact.

[Salk]

Here's my proposal:

 

Gauntlets of Weapon Skill

 

Parry: +2 bonus to AC (none vs. missile)

 

Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise

 

Power Attack: -1 thac0 (-2 to off-hand), +2 damage with melee weapons

 

Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization

 

Flurry of Blows: +1/2 attack per round

THAC0: +1 with melee weapons

 

Usable by: (<--- valid for all three of them of course)

Warriors

[Shaitan]

Here's my proposal:

 

Gauntlets of Weapon Skill

 

Parry: +2 bonus to AC (none vs. missile)

 

Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise

 

Power Attack: -1 thac0 (-2 to off-hand), +3 damage with melee weapons

 

Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization

 

Flurry of Blows: +1/2 attack per round

THAC0: +1 with melee weapons

 

Usable by: (<--- valid for all three of them of course)

Warriors

 

[DrAzTiK]

Don't you think there is enough way to increase CA... I know it's difficult to have -24Ca with Anomen but please....

 

If we allow Gauntlets of Weapon Skill to keep a thac0 bonus for melee weapons , it could be nice of course to allow them to many class coz generaly specialised fighters don't care about thac0's boost or thac0's penality.

[Icendoan]

Maybe yours don't, but to my Kensai, it is life or death. Who hits first, wins.

 

Icen

[Ardanis]

My two cents about Power Attack.

 

The -1 thaco penalty imo is nothing. High level fighters usually have thaco at -10/-12 or even lower. Even Jaheira generally has no trouble hitting guys.

I vote for 4~5 thaco penalty and 3~5 damage bonus. The character will be hitting worse yet harder and it will be somewhat noticable, unlike the case of -1/+3 or -2/+4.