IR v4 - list of changes over v3

[kreso]

Re crossbows:

 

I'm playing them with Light crossbow - pause at 2;

Heavy - pause at 4,

Light X-bow of speed (both normal and Drow version)- no pause at all, but no extra attack either,

Jan's personal - pause at 1 (it's a custom made machine after all).

I've also added +2 THAC0 to all light crossbows, and +4 to heavy versions, since imo they'd be rather unused in BG1 (one wants to hit-n-run with ranged weapons, 4 sec pause prohibits it).

 

Works out rather nice, I must say - crossbow users have a unique feel to them.

[dunehunter]

Hellow everyone, after reading the new changes of V4, I really like the concept of shield bashing, I download Ardanis's test version of it. It seems to be ignoring spells like image mirror. I think it should be more reasonable to treat this bash attack more like normal attack? So if a mage has image mirror on him, bash attack should not hit him that easily, right?

[kreso]

Hellow everyone, after reading the new changes of V4, I really like the concept of shield bashing, I download Ardanis's test version of it. It seems to be ignoring spells like image mirror. I think it should be more reasonable to treat this bash attack more like normal attack? So if a mage has image mirror on him, bash attack should not hit him that easily, right?

Afaik it works just like Hold Person for example, Mirror Image won't protect you against it.

[Demivrgvs]

Before starting to discuss changes to specific items that may be included in future updates of the beta, there's a couple of things that are already implemented in the current build but not yet mentioned in the first post.

 

Weapon Changes

Short Swords now use slashing dmg type instead of piercing.

 

This change may sound odd but we've done this in an effort to give every weapon type some sort of "role".

 

Short sword advantages over long swords:

- no backstab penalty

- can be dual wielded more efficiently

- better speed factor

- better thac0 against armor (because of piercing type)

Long sword advantages:

- +0.5 dmg

 

Short sword advantages over daggers:

- +0.5 dmg

- range 1 instead of 0 (not a big deal I know)

Dagger advantages:

- better speed factor

 

The above mentioned gloabl change would remove short sword advantage against armor compared to long swords, while giving daggers a bit more value. What do you think?

 

Shield Bash

I'm still not sure about this component because I love the concept but I'm not sure about its implementation.

 

@Beta testers, if you use this, let me know how you feel about it.

[kreso]

Weapon Changes

Long sword advantages:

- +0.5 dmg

Mmm...I think long swords have much more advantages than +0,5 damage...just look at late-game long swords. While there are a few splendid short sword specimens (Cutthroat & Mask), long swords offer so much in terms of character customization against various oponnents/protections etc.

Not to delve into much details, I'd say for fighters long swords outshine their smaller counterparts in every single aspect, especially with GM.

Thieves and bards are probably better off using SS due to limited proficiencies and backstab possibilities.

As for daggers, I'd change their damage dice. Instead of doing 1d4, make them 2d2. Or 1d3+1. Anything to buff up their minimum damage is nice since minimum damage is probabaly the most important aspect of succesfull backstab.

Even a +1 THAC0 would be nice for daggers, they ought to be more convinient to use than short swords (dagger is used in various non-combat situations as well).

[yarpen]

I think the best place to make a difference between Daggers and Short Swords is the damage type and how it affects hitting armored targets.

 

General tendency should be: slashing weapons deal the most damage but are worse against armored targets. Then piercing weapons can ... uhm... pierce through armor. Bludgeoning weapons are great against flexxible armors (leather/chainmail) and still good against non-flexxible armors (plates and stuff).

 

So.

Plate Mail could give +1 bonus to AC vs Slashing Weapons, no bonuses versus Piercing/Bludgeoning.

 

And now you can choose the more damaging options that are worse against armored enemies or the ones that deal less, but are fine against those damn knights in their shiny armors.

[Ardanis]

Hellow everyone, after reading the new changes of V4, I really like the concept of shield bashing, I download Ardanis's test version of it. It seems to be ignoring spells like image mirror. I think it should be more reasonable to treat this bash attack more like normal attack? So if a mage has image mirror on him, bash attack should not hit him that easily, right?

 

In theory yes, but regular weapons work the same in IE - even if the damage misses, the secondary effect is still applied. There's really no way to change that.

[Sergio]

isn't all this differentiation between weapons going to complicate everything?

[kreso]

isn't all this differentiation between weapons going to complicate everything?

 

Yeah. I usually just equip Silver Sword and go town.

[Demivrgvs]

Weapon Changes

I think long swords have much more advantages than +0,5 damage...just look at late-game long swords. While there are a few splendid short sword specimens (Cutthroat & Mask), long swords offer so much in terms of character customization against various oponnents/protections etc.

Point taken, but the above mentioned change isn't going to nerf short swords much, no? It's mostly there to buff daggers a little bit, giving them at least one small niche.

 

I think the best place to make a difference between Daggers and Short Swords is the damage type and how it affects hitting armored targets.

That is exactly what we did for the current beta.

 

isn't all this differentiation between weapons going to complicate everything?

It may sound complicated on paper, but when you actually play it's much more simple imo. Hardcore players can take advantage of all small refinements to get the best from each weapon/armor, but casual players can still play the game normally and feel at home imo, probably without noticing most of our base stat changes.

[Lianos]

Weapon Changes

 

Long sword advantages:
- +0.5 dmg

 

Isn't the difference between short swords and long swords more like +1 damage?

 

Base damage short sword 1d6 -> 3.5 average damage per hit

Base damage long sword 1d8 -> 4.5 average damage per hit

 

Or am I missing something?

 

 

Revised Armors

 

While I like the upgrade of heavy armor, I think the categorizing is a bit confusing. Within your Item Index and Kit Revisions' class descriptions

hide armors are light armor and splint armors is called a medium armor. So this should be considered when writing the readme and stuff.

[Demivrgvs]

Weapon Changes

Isn't the difference between short swords and long swords more like +1 damage?

Yes, you are correct.

 

Revised Armors

While I like the upgrade of heavy armor, I think the categorizing is a bit confusing. Within your Item Index and Kit Revisions' class descriptions hide armors are light armor and splint armors is called a medium armor. So this should be considered when writing the readme and stuff.

I'm not sure what you are confused about. Is there any instance where we say hide isn't light and splint isn't medium?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Revised Armors

I'm not sure what you are confused about. Is there any instance where we say hide isn't light and splint isn't medium?

You would do well without any such undescriptive and idiotic classifications and write things as they are. Scale armors as Scale... Plates armors as Plate... etc.

Or radically change the game experience and reclassify every armor by it's actual weight... Which will get you into so much trouble it's really not worth it.

 

As the matter of fact is, the game is very bad in categorizing things with weight:

Archer

...

- Cannot wear armor heavier than light.

Where does the line get drawn ?

Does that mean that the char get to wear Elf Chain Mails ? See, there was no mention of the weight of the item, just likely reference that the item is likely lighter than the normal Chain Mail.

[Lianos]

Revised Armors

 

Sorry, I should have quoted disputable lines (first post in this thread):

 

As discussed here we opted for:
* Light armors (leather, studded): 5% physical resistance
* Medium armors (hide, chain): 10% physical resistance
* Heavy armors (splint, plate): 15% physical resistance
* Very Heavy armor (full plate): 20% physical resistance

[Lawlight]

OMG! I was so thrilled about Revised Backstabbing (especially ranged backstabbing) Revised Critical Hits only to see that both components dont work for BG2EE. Any chance that the developers ever include the required ToBex features?

 

// very sad panda

Edited August 1, 2014 by Lawlight