Kit Revisions Beta 20

[kreso]

It seems that every time I check these forums, kreso has a new implementation of the Berserker.

You don't know the half of it.

 

@kreso, the next version will pretty much include everything you're wishing for. The Stalker really isn't a problem, the only reason it wasn't there in the current version was that in theory it should be out after the Beastmaster and not before it.

Nice. Anyhow - you might wanna try some things again while you're at it. It could be that EE fixed EFF so auras could stack properly.

Basically, try re-implementing Tactican aura stacking for True Fighters, it could work, at least with EE (I don't think it's that important, but it would be a significant boost to AI - most of them are True classes)

And Cavalier....

[Darkersun]

Can't wait for the new update. Is it possible to get a list of what is in it ?

[Demivrgvs]

Can't wait for the new update. Is it possible to get a list of what is in it ?

I can't give you all the details yet, but more or less it will contain the following changes:

- slight revision of Fighter and Archer's Called Shot features (ranged Trip has proven itself too powerful, especially when used by the Archer, and we are replacing it with Pinning Shot)

- another attempt at introducing Barbarian's Leap Attack feat

- heavy changes to the Berserker kit to hopefully make it less overpowering within BG1 and more controllable for BG2 (e.g. Frenzy loses +1apr in favor of increased damage, and Frenzy mechanic itself is slightly revised)

- complete overhaul of the Cavalier (re-enabled spellcasting, but with a slightly unique spellbook focusing on AC boosting and "bodyguard" role, standard Smite Evil "replaced" with Challenge Evil - as discussed here)

- small changes to the Undead Hunter to hopefully carve him a more defined role and overlap less with the base class

- implementation of Ranger's Quarry innate ability (after brief study a single target suffer AC and physical resistance penalties and cannot hide) and small upgrades to both Tracking and Animal Empathy

If possible I'd love to add at least the Stalker, because Beastmaster's Animal Companion might slow me down too much.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Demivrgvs

[Jarno Mikkola]

I can't give you all the details yet,

What about the HLA levels with the Paladin-ified XP table ?

[yarpen]

- implementation of Ranger's Quarry innate ability (after brief study a single target suffer AC and physical resistance penalties and cannot hide) and small upgrades to both Tracking and Animal Empathy

I believe you could actually make Quarry give Ranger +x to Attack Rolls and Damage against chosen target. Not sure if that's possible but I'd say it could be nice.

Also, I'd really love to have Rangers limited to Light Armors just as they are in DD4, but not sure if we can find advantages big enough to justify that. (being able to achieve mastery in swords and bows?)

Edited November 19, 2013 by yarpen

[Demivrgvs]

- implementation of Ranger's Quarry innate ability (after brief study a single target suffer AC and physical resistance penalties and cannot hide) and small upgrades to both Tracking and Animal Empathy

I believe you could actually make Quarry give Ranger +x to Attack Rolls and Damage against chosen target. Not sure if that's possible but I'd say it could be nice.

Afaik it's not possible.

 

Also, I'd really love to have Rangers limited to Light Armors just as they are in DD4, but not sure if we can find advantages big enough to justify that. (being able to achieve mastery in swords and bows?)

Well, both Archer and Stalker are already limited to light armors (the Beastmaster will be limited to armors of natural sources as druids), thus allowing the base class heavier armor is a really nice distinction imo. Medium armor could have been enough yes, but overall I'm fine allowing heavy armor too for those who like to keep Minsc as a ranger or want to reproduce Aragorn. Furthermore, with IR armor system if you want your ranger to consistently hide, attack fast or excel at range, you'll probably pick medium or light armors anyway.

[Kalindor]

You could always make the tripping attack a HLA and give it specifically to the true Fighter or some such.

 

*Edit: Or Monk.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Kalindor

[kreso]

- slight revision of Fighter and Archer's Called Shot features (ranged Trip has proven itself too powerful, especially when used by the Archer, and we are replacing it with Pinning Shot)

You could always make the tripping attack a HLA and give it specifically to the true Fighter or some such.

 

*Edit: Or Monk.

Fighers keep Called Shot:Trip kockkdown feature - but only usable in melee, making it less overwhelming against mages which are easilly destroyed via ranged Trip with non-enchanted arrows if they don't use Mantle-type spells. I haven't yet checked newest SCS in BG2 (according to info, mages do employ Mantles more) so that feature alone could help...more if Mantles with SR are changed to a spell which protects against all weapons, not only up to +x. I think this won't mess up the AI at all.

But even as it is, Mantle-type spells are hugely effective against arrows even without SR and with SCS tweak to them, since you can't get +4 arrows easilly.

Otoh, I'd simply give every BG2 mage a Protection from missiles spell prebuff as well - it's a cheap spell in BG2 and, with SR, makes the mage immune to almost any missile weapon regardless of it's enchantement.

 

another attempt at introducing Barbarian's Leap Attack feat

As I can remember, what happened with this is that

a) it triggered constantly, even with neutral targets

b) you could get a THAC0 as low as -70

Maybe the trigger could be changed, since that "enemy within 10 feet" didn't work well, or merged with Cleave.

 

heavy changes to the Berserker kit to hopefully make it less overpowering within BG1 and more controllable for BG2 (e.g. Frenzy loses +1apr in favor of increased damage, and Frenzy mechanic itself is slightly revised)

Anything I write about tweaks to this class is very experimental (I think as so far I created about a dozen different Berserkers) - but few things are certain, from all of attempts:

1)Berserk opcode will get you killed in boss-fights unless you provide him with either huge regeneration while he's berserking or some kind of damage resistance/minHP - nothing else will help him. Even in "relatively succesfull" attempts at making this kit work he had to be a part of a "greater picture" - i.e. - a custom-made party for him (preferably with an Archer as a second physical damage dealer), heavy metagaming (GM in long-swords, evil aligment) and similar; and I didn't like that.

2) damage-per-tick thingies (aka poison, insect bites, even magic missiles) usually make berserker very angry

3) gameplay vastly differs from BG1 and BG2 experience

4) balancing out huge drawbacks of berserking is a pain to handle (how can you balance the possibilty of wasting 18 seconds attack on a mage protected with Fireshields and PFMW, while there are valid targets around? And still not make it OP against "soft" targets like other fighters?)

5) enemies coded as Berserkers get all features my PC berserkers do with new SCS, and that's amazing to see

 

 

If possible I'd love to add at least the Stalker, because Beastmaster's Animal Companion might slow me down too much.

Just add Stalker. Even EE developers didn't bother with a proper Animal, he still gets his Fairy Dragon .

[Demivrgvs]

I do hoped to release the new beta today but unfortunately I won't, sorry. Blame my girl for that. That being said, I'll try to finish it for tomorrow, around dinner as always. It will include pretty much what I listed a couple of posts ago, and while I'm putting the Beastmaster on hold (not for long though, it's the thing I want to work the most as soon as IR and SR are out), I'm instead including a first draft of the Stalker.

 

@Beta testers, if you want to start imagining your party I can anticipate that ideally I really need you guys to focus on two kits, the Berserker (I'm sure I know someone who won't mind playing it) and the Cavalier (I've shortly discussed it with DavidW and I want to give a chance to a PnP-esque Shield Other/Ally, but it's a heavy game-changing feature which requires a lot of testing). I'm not saying I don't care about other classes, I'd be happy to have feedback on them, but I'm much more confident about them. Short story, try to find a space for at least one of those two kits in your party please.

 

P.S I'll try to give more detailed informations tonight before going to sleep.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Demivrgvs

[kreso]

 

Jokes aside, I'll (be happy to) play all 3 of them.

[Kalindor]

I will try it out whenever it is ready.

[Demivrgvs]

 

Jokes aside, I'll (be happy to) play all 3 of them.

LOL

 

I will try it out whenever it is ready.

I still need to package it an update tra files but I finished everything else 1 minute ago. I'm falling asleep though, I'll try to wake up early and close it asap. You'll surely get it tomorrow. zzz Lot of surprises and good news though.

[kreso]

Demi, had your dinner yet? Don't keep us waiting

[Demivrgvs]

Demi, had your dinner yet? Don't keep us waiting

Actually I still have to get home and prepare it! Hopefully it won't take long, I just make some "trofie with pesto". After that I'll package the files and upload them asap. I hope to do it sooner rather than later because history tells me that I need to stay around after release to correct a bunch minor mistakes.

[Demivrgvs]

In theory I've packaged everything (I've heavily understimated the HUGE amount of new things and new files I worked on), but in the hurry I must have messed up quite a few things judging by the multiple failed installs. I'll test it myself a little bit more before uploading it. Sorry for the additional delay.

 

Hoping to raise beta testers morale I can give you a completely unrelated good news: Arda is back. I suppose you can imagine what that means.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Demivrgvs