SR V4 Open Beta (last update 25 October 2018)

[Jarno Mikkola]

Yeah man, V3 is almost a bad mod compared to V4.

Then you could consider making an official release out of the thing... if you really think this way. It's not likely that the v4 to be any worse than v4 beta 13 april 2015. And you have a numberious way to make small and easy updates. But no. You have to release a mod every... quarter century, right ? Edited September 23, 2015 by Jarno Mikkola

[Shaitan]

Hello

 

Am I impressed with SRv4? Yes, it has really meant that my use of spells has broardend a lot. Much has improved and alone the new animations are magnificient - I love Acid Sheath (sp?) among other stuff.

 

Two things I've noticed

Regenerating spells stops when you travel or sleep. Is that the intention? I'd think they should run until end of spell. Also I don't know if the AI could cast leftover regen spells on party when sleep or is this just due to them not working in sleep/travel?

 

That druidic spell (I've forgotten it's name) which gives you paws, the icon is hard to see. I do not need action here, but other might think so. It's really a very minor issue.

 

Thanks and cheers

[Demivrgvs]

@Jarno, you are right. Both IR and SR betas at this point would be fine if released (they already we almost a year ago imo), but unfortunately they miss few crucial things which I'm still having troubles handling (e.g. IR and 1PPv4).

 

Regenerating spells stops when you travel or sleep. Is that the intention? I'd think they should run until end of spell. Also I don't know if the AI could cast leftover regen spells on party when sleep or is this just due to them not working in sleep/travel?

Strange considering similar regenerating sources such as Ring of Regeneration do work while sleeping/traveling, and I use the same opcode. I'll check it, but at least you are not missing out too much considering their relatively short duration (3 turns is not even 1 hour in terms of "in-game time").

 

That druidic spell (I've forgotten it's name) which gives you paws, the icon is hard to see. I do not need action here, but other might think so. It's really a very minor issue.

Do you mean the one which gives magical paws to your animals, aka Magic Fang? If you are talking about Beast Claw which gives magic paws to you, that not from SR, probably Divine Remix (I considered it a useless addition because it shares the same spell level of Flame Blade).

 

If itis Magic Fang, it looked ok last time I checked, and I don't know if the player we gifted me with those bams is still around to eventually tweak them.

[Shaitan]

I don't have Divine Remix, other new mods in this installation is KR, but I guess it's Magic Fang. Shouldn't it be red instead of white?

 

I'll take a closer look next time I reach my laptop = my BG installation.

 

Cheers

[Jarno Mikkola]

@Jarno, you are right. Both IR and SR betas at this point would be fine if released but unfortunately they miss few crucial things which I'm still having troubles handling (e.g. IR and 1PPv4).

And you could push those back to v5 and release that next week if you make the crucial thing by then, and if not, you still have a v4 in the mean time.

 

 

 

Regarding betas: there is a few balance issues ...

And those are better to be handled at official version updates where everyone is on an equal stand point in comparing the file data.

 

Edited September 23, 2015 by Jarno Mikkola

[DreamSlaveOne]

If itis Magic Fang, it looked ok last time I checked, and I don't know if the player we gifted me with those bams is still around to eventually tweak them.

 

Actually, I'm thinking about another polishing/tuning pass for SR icons. Magic Fang, Animal Growth and a few others is on my "i'm not happy how it looks" list. Redo original BG2 interface art in highres for EE is planned as well.

 

Regarding betas: there is a few balance issues (summoning spells, imho), but overall it was very pleasing and fun playthrough. I think the world is ready for awesomeness of SR + IR and KR combo in not very distant (I hope) feature.

[subtledoctor]

@Jarno, you are right. Both IR and SR betas at this point would be fine if released (they already we almost a year ago imo),

I was recently in Jarno's camp, but after reading this info, I'd actually prefer that the v4 release wait until some more under-the-hood work improvements are made, to use ADD_SPELL instead of just copying new spells in...

 

http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=27578&do=findComment&comment=238523

 

E.g. what if v4 is released, which, for instance, adds SPPR116.spl for Sunscorch, and then a few weeks later the 1.4 EE patches drop, adding new spells to the base lists up to SPPR117? And SPPR115 is vanilla Sunscorch and SPPR116 is Stone Strength? (This is what happens with IWDEE right now, and Beamdog is using IWDEE as the basis of the 1.4 patches, supposedly "unifying" the code base for all three EE games. Of course it's possible someone on the SR team has some inside knowledge about Beamdog's plans... )

 

The process of switching SR's methods will be a bit labor-intensive, but it's sort of straightforward - I'm doing something similar right now in my mod, so I think I understand what needs to be done. If I have any free time in the next few months (a very, very big if... I might drop off the radar soon), I might be able to help out.

[Jarno Mikkola]

E.g. what if v4 is released, which, for instance, adds SPPR116.spl for Sunscorch, and then a few weeks later the 1.4 EE patches drop, adding new spells to the base lists up to SPPR117? And SPPR115 is vanilla Sunscorch and SPPR116 is Stone Strength? (This is what happens with IWDEE right now, and Beamdog is using IWDEE as the basis of the 1.4 patches, supposedly "unifying" the code base for all three EE games. Of course it's possible someone on the SR team has some inside knowledge about Beamdog's plans... )

So what ? Well, the only thing that's going to do is to suspend the mod from use in the new EE games, just like it does with the betas now, if it does. Are you saying that a mod maker CAN'T make a non-EE BG2 updates to mods now ? Besides, if it has taken 3 years from the last official release... how much tinkering is it going to take before the next is going to get online ? At this pace, it's unlikely to get online before it's too late anyways. No matter what the hell you do. By the by, the ADD_SPELL thing has been there for years already... and they counted it out from v4 at a stage last year...

[DreamSlaveOne]

Does ADD_SPELL break compatibility with SCS scripts?

[Jarno Mikkola]

No.

Actually adding spells that way allows them to be easier to identify, so the SCS would benefit from it... after it was updated of course to account the change.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Jarno Mikkola

[subtledoctor]

So what ? Well, the only thing that's going to do is to suspend the mod from use in the new EE games, just like it does with the betas now, if it does. Are you saying that a mod maker CAN'T make a non-EE BG2 updates to mods now ? Besides, if it has taken 3 years from the last official release... how much tinkering is it going to take before the next is going to get online ? At this pace, it's unlikely to get online before it's too late anyways. No matter what the hell you do. By the by, the ADD_SPELL thing has been there for years already... and they counted it out from v4 at a stage last year...

So what? So nothing - no one says a mod maker has to target any given version of the game. Now, from a player's perspective, I selfishly think it would be best if modders who make great mods that I love would make their mods accessible to the game I play. E.g. I really enjoy playing with SR and IR on my iPad. Another example: Tome & Blood is freaking fantastic, so I've been advocating that Aquadrizzt make it compatible with BGT.

 

But putting aside the players' desires, if SR is made compatible with the EEs to great fanfare, and then 2 weeks later it ends up incompatible, with no new update on the horizon for another 5 years, that would just be embarrassing. If you published a mod, would you really want to invite that risk? (Maybe you don't see this angle, because for all you talk about modding you never actually publish anything. )

 

And finally there is the simple question of best practice. Weidu has been updated a lot by theBigg and Wisp and CamDawg and a bunch of other people, and is much more capable than it was when SR was first created. You can use tools like ADD_SPELL and CLONE/ALTER_EFFECT and RES_NUM_OF_SPELL_NAME to install this kind of mod in a way that is far more flexible, robust, and generally superior than by just using COPY.

 

At the very least, since the vanilla games use SPXX### spells starting at 01 and going up, and also some numbers from 99 and going down, it would make much more sense for a mod like SR to use values somewhere in the middle, instead of starting at the very next number after the vanilla spells. Maybe start in the 50s of 60s - make Suncorch SPPR161 instead of 116. It's not nearly as robust, but at least it would give the mod some breathing room.

Edited September 23, 2015 by subtledoctor

[Jarno Mikkola]

At the very least, since the vanilla games use SPXX### spells starting at 01 and going up, and also some numbers from 99 and going down, it would make much more sense for a mod like SR to use values somewhere in the middle, instead of starting at the very next number after the vanilla spells. Maybe start in the 50s of 60s - make Suncorch SPPR161 instead of 116. It's not nearly as robust, but at least it would give the mod some breathing room.

Sorry, but making such a change is as troublesome as it is to make it use the ADD_SPELL ... eventually at least. And what comes to EE compatibility, worry about that when the times comes to in, and do now what you have already done, release, and fix the fuckups you have, later.

And sorry, but the reality is, that if there's no update after v4 in 5 years, there's a reason for it, it's that Demi is brain dead. That's why there is v3.1 now, the v3 was a f&%¤d, so the v3.1 is less so. It's not that hard to update the mod if you just have a working example of it in the ups. But if you aren't going to make the v4, there isn't ever going to be a v4.1 . Yeah, you might wish the v4 is the end of it all... but it won't likely to be.

 

And if you look at the SR forum, it looks very much as if the v4 was live, without the download forum thread, not potentially there in the next few years. The top 5 pinned topic threads are, "New Divine Spells for v4", "New Arcane Spells for v4", "Feedback", and "SRv4", the last is about compatibility, not in that order... while the v4 isn't out: WHY ?

Edited September 23, 2015 by Jarno Mikkola

[cipher]

Actually, I'm thinking about another polishing/tuning pass for SR icons. Magic Fang, Animal Growth and a few others is on my "i'm not happy how it looks" list. Redo original BG2 interface art in highres for EE is planned as well.

Both Magic Fang and Animal Growth icons look very nice in my case (not EE). Colour and style blend seamlessly in the spellbook.

One notice, if I may, I have about some blue icons, such as Acid Sheath. The style is great, only the colour is a bit on the bright side. On each own it looks fine, but compared to the vanilla icons it's obvious that is different.

I don't know if I'm very helpful, I could post some pics if it's of any use.

[DreamSlaveOne]

Yes, Acid Sheath is also in this list. But I'm torn on this EE/Vanilla issues. After your post I looked again and realized that EE spell icons in fact look different than vanilla ones! See it for yourself:

 

 

Left - EE, right - Vanilla.

 

Tweaked Mestil Acid Sheath in comparison:

 

 

Question is, should I pursuit original style or prefer EE variant? Maybe some middle ground, idk

Edited September 24, 2015 by DreamSlaveOne

[Mike1072]

The icons in the enhanced editions are probably from 1PP, which has a component to make BG2 spell icons match the BG1 style. In vanilla BG2, the spells that were carried over from BG1 look distinctly different from the new ones. The spell emblems in BG1 appear painted on a shiny stone, while the ones added in BG2 appear embossed in a stone and have less of a sheen.

 

Compare Vanilla BG2 to 1PP Consistent Spell and Scroll Icons.

 

I prefer the BG1 style, and since we now have 1PP and EE enforcing it as the standard, I think we should follow suit.