Complaint regarding BG1RE content (resolved)

[jastey]

I think the thread makes it very clear the changes will not occur to mute one voice.

 

To all who cannot understand the decision to take out the mod component in question: Feel free to create your own mod with dark content, but make sure you do it elsewhere.

[jastey]

Sorry, my last reply reads like a rant, which it probably was.

 

What I was trying to say: There are rules for bg1re I set up when calling for contributions here (first post, further down). Rule no.2 reads: "No violence in any form", and in the context, I meant sexual violence, of course.

 

So, the question is not: "Why do they take out the component?" but "Why was it in in the first place?"

 

The only reasons I can think of is: Because the mod author is a creator of brilliant mod content and a fabulous writer - and I weighted rule no. 3 ("The player has to have the choice of ending whatever happens to the PC in every dialogue state") above rule no. 2.

[Mad Mate]

So, no 50 shades of gray in this mod? :-)

[Camarilla]

Seems to me that Glam Vrock is just confusing a bit of light BDSM with rape. These are two very different things. Both may include violence, but in BDSM, the violence is always consensual. In this case, there is the option to back off in every step, so it is NOT rape. The encounter is a bit on the rough side, but Charname has to give her consent to go through with it - thus, no rape, just light BDSM.

It is of course the modders' decision to take the component out of the mod, I just wanted to clarify the terms. Glam Vrock isn't advocating against rape, he's just imposing his own tastes in sex onto everybody else. Well done, sir.

 

(Just a little note to the author - I enjoyed the encounter a lot, and I will be sad to see it go. And I'm sure there are many people like me. Don't be discouraged by something like this - it's just one voice. Even if a very loud one.)

[jastey]

I am not sure why you call it light BDSM, as I understand BDSM is consensual - which is not the same as "but she didn't say 'no'". You could call this hard BDSM for some dialogue paths but it is sexual assault under threads for others, something i do not want to have in bg1re. (I never said the component could not be enjoyed by some - and I say it without judging.).

 

I have no problems including a real BDSM encounter into bg1re - with whipping, if need be. But also with equal levelled parties, consenual rules, no threatening atmosphere, and a code word.

 

Mad Mate: I pondered whether to take this question as a joke or answer it seriously. I decided the latter: Shades of Grey deals with a traumatised man who takes out his trauma by sexually dominating other women. He managed to come to BDSM to do this and did not turn into a sadist that gets his victims by force, because there is some sanity and humanity left in him - that is why he is the main character, anyway. The beginning of the book is about theatening atmospheres, physical punishments that give the female protagonist great distress. So, no, no shades of Grey in this mod.

 

(But I also want to continue: Despite what is repeated in media, the female protagonist does not like being dominated or sexually assaulted ("rape fantasies: that must be the reason why so many women read this book!!!111"). What really happens in this book, which no-one understands who doesn't read it, is that she takes on the lead quite quickly - lets him run against walls with his threatening behaviour and only gives in to sexual fantasies she can enjoy. She does enjoy BDSM and sex quite a lot (that is why she is the female protagonist of this book), but only after she tamed him, and when he is playing be her rules - and when they trust each other. And that (together with the fact that he is the best-looking, wealthiest man in the whole world and has never be touched lovingly in his whole life before), dear folks, is the reason for the success of this book. Yes, I read it, at least parts of it, and the ending.)

[Glam Vrock]

it is NOT rape.

 

Is that why Charname can openly use the word rape to describe the encounter?

 

A "yes" under duress is not consent. A sexual encounter which someone goes and cries to their friend about, traumatised and wishing the perpetrator to be punished, cannot be interpreted as a bit of harmless fun. All these points have been made already. Maybe, and I mean this as a sincere suggestion, you should read the thread?

[Mad Mate]

@jastey

It was a joke, with dose of seriousness in it.

What I see here is exactly what Camarilla said in post above: One person is imposing his own taste on everyone else.

If anyone is offended with some component, don’t install it. I, personally, don’t like 50 shades of Grey, but that doesn’t mean that it should be banned. Or that people who like it are immoral or something worse.

Different people, different opinions, tastes. That is thing that spice up this world.

And it is ridiculous to say that nobody reads a readme in a mod that asks you, before installing, what content do you want.

If you want more restriction on who install this component, you can comment it out in tp2 (like bg2fixpack), and write in readme that there is hidden component for non-consensual BDSM lovers. Or ask Wisp that he include some parental control device in Weidu (this is a joke) ;-)

By the way, I really like yours and Kulyok’s writing. It would be a shame, that something is lost…

 

Thanks for reading!

[Glam Vrock]

 

See, this isn't robbery, because Charname is agreeing to hand over the money when she has the option to kill him instead.

[Mad Mate]

 

it is NOT rape.

 

Is that why Charname can openly use the word rape to describe the encounter?

 

A "yes" under duress is not consent. A sexual encounter which someone goes and cries to their friend about, traumatised and wishing the perpetrator to be punished, cannot be interpreted as a bit of harmless fun. All these points have been made already. Maybe, and I mean this as a sincere suggestion, you should read the thread?

 

So some say that it is a rape, and some says that it is not.

But what do you think about women who have "rape fantasies"?

Should we burn them?

[Glam Vrock]

If anyone is offended with some component, don’t install it.

 

So...

 

 

You know Chloe? Not the BG2 NPC, but that cheery little child in Beregost? Can I write a mod where Charname kidnaps and forcibly sodomises her? And have it be, you know, kinda sexy, instead of the reprehensible act that it is?

 

 

If you were in charge, you'd be happy to host this mod, based on the idea that people don't have to install it?

 

Although I suppose I do impose my tastes in sex on everyone else, in that I don't think threatening someone with death and gangrape to make them open their legs for you is a good thing to do. I just had the insane notion that most people agreed with this.

[Glam Vrock]

So some say that it is a rape, and some says that it is not.

But what do you think about women who have "rape fantasies"?

Should we burn them?

 

 

Yes. We should murder the people who enjoy this content with fire. That's definitely what I've been arguing here.

 

Let me ask you a question. Did you read jastey's post earlier? One of the rules she established when accepting submissions was "No sexual violence," so I'm obviously not the only one who thinks rape shouldn't be in this mod. Why aren't you asking her if she wants to burn people? That must be why she forbade it, right? Out of irrational hatred for those who might enjoy it?

[Mad Mate]

 

If you were in charge, you'd be happy to host this mod, based on the idea that people don't have to install it?

 

Although I suppose I do impose my tastes in sex on everyone else, in that I don't think threatening someone with death and gangrape to make them open their legs for you is a good thing to do. I just had the insane notion that most people agreed with this.

 

I didn't say you are not right, but you are too much translating and exaggerating things.

I might have very same opinion like you in these things, but you have to understand, whether you like it or not, some other people have different opinion.

[CamDawg]

Second, and sadly, what could have been an insightful, thought-provoking discussion is instead about one page of insight and four pages of uselessness. I expect better from everyone. This is a serious topic, entwined for many in deeply personal experiences, and I would rather see the topic (and more to the point, the people sharing their opinions) treated with the respect and gravity they deserve.

Alright, let's see how we've done!

 

...

 

Oh dear.

[Mad Mate]

 

Second, and sadly, what could have been an insightful, thought-provoking discussion is instead about one page of insight and four pages of uselessness. I expect better from everyone. This is a serious topic, entwined for many in deeply personal experiences, and I would rather see the topic (and more to the point, the people sharing their opinions) treated with the respect and gravity they deserve.

Alright, let's see how we've done!

 

...

 

Oh dear.

 

Well, this thread could be educational, when this horrendous game is all about murdering, betrayal, butchering, arson, blasphemy, incest, sodomy, sotonic orders, rape... :-)

[Glam Vrock]

I didn't say you are not right, but you are too much translating and exaggerating things.

I might have very same opinion like you in these things, but you have to understand, whether you like it or not, some other people have different opinion.

 

 

I'm confused. You say I'm right, but you also say I'm just one loudmouth imposing my tastes on everyone else? Which is it?