Complaint regarding BG1RE content (resolved)

[Almateria]

Agreedo, rape is an insanely hilarious thing

 

Or, it's things like this mod that make modding communities a joke (albeit a very tasteless one) in normal people's eyes. But surely I must be wrong

[Abdal]

Eh, was this mod really trying to portray rape as a positive thing or one that should be encouraged in rl? Does the PC have the option to do so to innocent girl/s and get away without any consequences? Were women in this mod portrayed negatively in comparison to males with the modder showing an intense contempt towards women? I didn't notice...

 

That said the game(not mod specifically) itself does feature plenty of MURDER as the PC has the option to kill innocent bystanders whether they are man or women. Slaughtering random harmless animals is also an option. Strangely no one complains about those despite the player having the option to do so. Is murder so "harmless" or one could open a thread stating "In what world does killing people constitute a GAME". Because that is what Baldurs Gate and many other rpgs are...games. And there are also shooters and action games in general with QUITE realistic scenes of murder all for the players to enjoy.

 

Where does the morality stick go to far? Where should there be a limit to what can be done in a game and how much modders and game makers in general should be restricted and why? Do players become better people by playing "nice" games and do they run the risk of becoming "evil" by playing less sweet ones?

 

I didn't particularly enjoy nor find this quest praiseworthy but I hardly do find it offensive. Really, I kinda felt as if this thread was mostly created for "attentionz". Geez.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Eh, was this mod really trying to portray rape as a positive thing or one that should be encouraged in rl?

No.

One could always make a serious face and consider the concept of taking things out of context, and then laugh to oneself ... while keeping the serious face -on.

[tibicina]

This entire situation irked me. Both the Dirty Guard scenario and the Bartus scenario ended up being rewritten. Which more or less resolved the issue. Except that I liked the original scenario for Bartus better. Not because it involved coercive sex/sexual torture, but because it was a complete, balanced story with a clear plot arc. The rewrite cut down the arc and now the scenario feels incomplete.

[jastey]

Thank you for the kind words concerning the Bartus component, tibicina.

 

I wrote the original content with the plot arch in mind, but I couldn't leave it as it was once I realized how many rapy fantasy clichés I worked into it. The cut of this component is half due to "the content is really dark und -unnecessarily- (sexual) violent", plus "OMG did I write this? I am embarrassed, hopefully no-one will notice".

 

Chances are high there will be a rewritten, complete component in a later version, with a similar plot arch but without the (sexual) violence - which is completely unecessary for telling the story.

[Ankhesenpaaten]

*sigh* This entire thread is irksome. Maybe useful to a degree, but irksome, as tibicina said.

 

In all honestly, nothing is "necessary". No movie sequels are "necessary," no movie is "necessary," no game or book is "necessary," and practically nothing in entertainment IS.

 

I'm probably not even going to come back to this thread at all, but I am just wanting to say that this all has been the perfect example of having to worry about everything everybody thinks and feels and if their sensibilites are offended. Sheesh! If everything that isn't "necessary" is cut from everything there would be nothing left and then there would be complaining that there is nothing there.

[lunaris]

It's probably pointless to post in this thread after 6 days of its inactivity, but I just have to react. For one thing this game is mostly about doing things you would not do in real life. 3000, 4000 kills in the final chapter of the game is nothing uncommon. Does that not bother you? There are many "dark" things present in the game beside that. What about Irenicus? Isn't he too evil? Should not his dialogues be tweaked too? Maybe you should not let anyone use your computer/play BG because what if someone close to them was robbed or tortured, or even murdered. Evil alignments should not be allowed when creating the main character, because they are simply offending as nobody should behave like that, blah blah. I could continue to no end.

1) Jastey does a great job with her mods and doesn't deserve to be attacked like this. I have a lot of respect for every modder who invest their time in modding - evidently a very unrewarding thing to do.

2) I just cannot imagine how the threadstarter could create a realistically evil NPC (Vynd) if he gets upset about this. This is a game, not a real life. Get over it and don't play it if it bothers you so much. Just as I surely won't play your mod.

[Galsic]

Eh, was this mod really trying to portray rape as a positive thing or one that should be encouraged in rl?

 

Well, when you include rape or geniune threat of sexual violence in a mod named "Romantic Encounters," I would argue the positive portrayal is...sort of implied, intended or not. A lot of posts here seemed to veer off into wider "nothing's wrong with rape fantasies" and "if murdering all these people is okay, why not rape?" arguments, but none of them really addresses the main message the OP (I think) tried to get across: neither rape nor (again, genuine) threat of sexual violence is romantic, and therefore, and I agree, the original Dirty Guard segment isn't appropriate for this particular mod.

[tibicina]

Trust me on this: the development team has dealt with the problem. V 1.1 is much different. The blanket "no coercive sex/rape" policy made the team question every component in the mod asking the question: "is affection/sex being coerced in any way in this component?" Don't get me wrong...this was/is a valid point. But if we question closely, I'm not sure that Baldur's Gate as a game would survive the questioning. Viconia's history, Ragefast's nymph, Deheriana, and other characters are subjected to rape or coercion as plot points. Bioware permitted these to go through. Does this mean Bioware approves of coercive sex because they need to tell stories and sell games? I don't ask this to invite argument, but to ask for some allowance for literary purposes.

 

lunaris: the thread-starter had a right to voice a complaint. And he had a point that deserved to be considered. But yes, his NPC has a personal history of rape and coercive sex. Drow culture makes it clear that being male makes one property. That makes the whole thread a bit ironic.

[Galsic]

Viconia's history, Ragefast's nymph, Deheriana, and other characters are subjected to rape or coercion as plot points. Bioware permitted these to go through. Does this mean Bioware approves of coercive sex because they need to tell stories and sell games? I don't ask this to invite argument, but to ask for some allowance for literary purposes.

 

**Shrugs** None of that (as far as I remember) was portrayed or implied by BioWare to be positive events, so I don't think many, if any, people could reasonably argue that BioWare approves of such activities based on any of that material. Even with all the killing your CharName could do, it's made clear in the game, by the narrative and all the consequences (loss of rep, guards and townsfolk turning hostile, etc.), that it's wrong. It's all about context. BioWare, and others including modders, needn't avoid such subjects altogether. But if one wants to avoid being seen as and criticized for endorsing murder, rape, whatever awful thing, as positives (as I'm sure G3 does), then care needs to be taken with how such material is portrayed and/or presented. Unfortunately, by adding the Dirty Guard component into Romantic Encounters, a mod whose name has positive meanings and connotations, those involved failed in that regard.

[Thimblerig]

That would be why the encounter was edited, Galsic. Errors in judgement happen; we did what we could to make it right.

[Galsic]

@Thimblerig I know, and good on you for dealing with the issue the way you did *thumbs up*. My last posts were made mostly to address those who still continue to bring up wider arguments like "if murdering all these people is okay, why not rape?" and "literary freedom" that aren't particularly relevant to this specific issue. That's what I find irksome.

[tibicina]

That's what I find irksome.

Bless my soul! I've been quoted. As a writer, that makes my day...

 

Sorry, Thimblerig... Realized that I was stirring the pot...

[Mike1072]

Hotline Miami 2 was just refused classification in Australia. Apparently part of the reason is because it includes a scene of sexualised violence.

 

http://www.playerattack.com/news/2015/01/15/hotline-miami-2-too-offensive-for-australia/

 

 

The computer game is classified RC in accordance with the National Classification Code, Computer Games Table, 1. (a) as computer games that "depict, express or otherwise deal with matters of sex, drug misuse or addiction, crime, cruelty, violence or revolting or abhorrent phenomena in such a way that they offend against the standards of morality, decency and propriety generally accepted by reasonable adults to the extent that they should not be classified."

 

Generally, items that are classified RC or prohibited under Customs regulations cannot be imported into Australia.

 

The Australian Customs and Border Protection Service may seize these items at the border.

[Dakk]

The ranting, berating and unconstructive flaming:

Whether there's an out or not, someone still eroticised sexual assault and put it under the heading of "Romantic Encounters." That's what you want representing G3, is it? Tactical tweaks, bug fixes and rape smut?

So let me clarify. A man threatens a woman with imprisonment and death by hanging if she doesn't let him have his way with her. You don't consider that to be rape.

Those are your words, not mine. What I said was that by hosting content on your website, you are allowing that content to represent it. This mod attempts to eroticise sexual assault. So again, "G3, they got fix packs, they got quest expansions, they got rape porn." Do you want that to be an accurate description of this place?

Oh yeah, women just love being propositioned and threatened by disgusting rapists. What the hell is wrong with you?

Let's say I advertised this encounter to people. "Hey guys, G3 has a mod that lets you play a sexy rape scene!" As I type this, that is the truth. Do you think that would reflect well on this place?

---

Followed by angelic surprise that such gentle posts could be construed as inflammatory:

 

It saddens me that people consider this trolling.

 

It is not my intent to anger people. [...]

 

I am voicing a strong opinion. You disagree. That's fine. It does not mean I'm trying to annoy you.

I realise that none of this occurred because of malice, and I apologise if I've made you feel like a villain. However, I needed you to see this for what it was, and pulling the punches wasn't going to achieve that.

 

We all make mistakes. It's how you handle them that counts. I appreciate your maturity in making this decision, and I hope there'll be no hard feelings.

 

Well then. Then we know. If you want someone to acknowledge a fault - just stir up a gigantic shitstorm of name calling and accuse them of base acts of (virtual) depravity; that'll get it solved in a timely and constructive manner. Because, you know, if you "pull your punches", people won't take you seriously. Afterwards, act justified. Maybe throw in some false regret that your insulting implications hurt people.

 

In all honesty OP, do you seriously believe that this wouldn't have gotten solved more expediently if you just had written a matter-of-factly post with your concrete objections to the content? Or even directly PM:ed jastey?

 

Instead you went all-in with character assassination and mud slinging against a poor modder and the whole modding community of G3. It's very bad form, and it paints you as a person that have scant regard for the feelings of others and serious issues with respecting the mental well-being of your fellow human. But then again, I suppose you are the kind of person that verbally destroys a waitress that gets your order wrong.

 

@jastey:

You're one of my absolute favorite modders. I feel bad that you had to go through this for no other reason than being the administrative head of a (text-based) computer game mod. Hell, you didn't even write the component. In all, you handled it with more grace than I would have...

 

I sincerely hope this won't put too much of a damper on your future modding.

 

With that said, I'm off to exterminate the Xvart village for the ^_nth time.