Gwaihir Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) I got a doubt regarding a possibly annoying issue for this playthrough. Here's the thing: after killing Davaeorn, he didn't drop the key for the river plug that allows to flood the Cloakwood mines. Looking at DAVAEO.CRE in Nearinfinity, he indeed has the key (MISC83.ITM), but it's only listed in the 'edit' tab, while there is no trace of it if I click on the 'view' tab, and then 'items/spells'. I also noticed that that .CRE has a total of 26 items, 16 of which assigned to an inventory slot, and 6 more equipped. So I would like to ask: is there a limit to the inventory slots of any given NPC? And if so, is 16 that limit? And if that's the case, is it possible in a heavily modded game to add too many items to a creature, thus overwriting or simply 'pushing aside' already existing items? Spoiler Mods affecting DAVAEO.CRE: 00000: /* created or unbiffed */ ~EET\EET.TP2~ 0 0 // EET core (resource importation)V13.4 00001: ~SOD2BG2_IU\SOD2BG2_IU.TP2~ 0 0 // SoD to BG2:EE Item upgrade by Daeros_Trollkillerv2.0.2 00002: ~DSOTSC\DSOTSC.TP2~ 0 4 // Distribute DSotSC items also in vanilla contentv4.1 00003: ~THECALLING\THECALLING.TP2~ 0 40 // Exotic Item Packv2 00004: ~AL_ITEM_PACK/AL_ITEM_PACK.TP2~ 0 0 // Arcane Treasury modv1.5 00005: ~TOMEANDBLOOD\TOMEANDBLOOD.TP2~ 0 16 // Improved Identify spell (usable by Arcanist/Multi Sorcerers)0.9.26.1 00006: ~EET_TWEAKS\EET_TWEAKS.TP2~ 0 2052 // XP for killing creaturesDecrease to 50%1.12 00007: ~SCALES_OF_BALANCE\SCALES_OF_BALANCE.TP2~ 0 200 // SBO - Stat Bonus Overhaulv5.37.1 00008: ~PPE\SETUP-PPE.TP2~ 0 0 // Portraits Portraits Everywhere (PPE) - core component1.02 00009: ~STRATAGEMS\SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ 0 5900 // Initialise AI components (required for all tactical and AI components)34.3 00010: ~STRATAGEMS\SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ 0 6000 // Smarter general AI34.3 00011: ~STRATAGEMS\SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ 0 6030 // Smarter Mages34.3 00012: ~STRATAGEMS\SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ 0 6100 // Potions for NPCs34.3 There's also the case of the edventar's gift(MAGE05.ITM): in my install DAVAEO.CRE has that item equipped in the right ring slot; however, that item wasn't dropped either. This makes me wander: how exactly the items to be dropped after defeating an enemy are set? I can see a couple of 'DW#RND**.ITM', which I guess drop some random scrolls, but one would think at least those items from the 'items/spells' tab should all be dropped. At the end of the day, I guess knowing the answers to those questions won't change a slightly sad fact: whenever I see a lot of dropped items from an enemy, I'll probably need to check that enemy's .CRE file to make sure I didn't miss any. Edited March 29, 2022 by Gwaihir Quote
jastey Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 @Gwaihir I made this an own topic because I think it deserves the attention. Split from here. Quote
temnix Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 Why check if you've missed anything if all you are going to get is what they drop? And there are many items that are either equipped with the Undroppable flag set or as not Droppable in item properties. Especially rings, which give immunities. Davaeorn probably has some special protections. Real, droppable rings start with RING, that one is simply a copy hastily made and retaining the name. But there is also, for example, HELMNOAN, which is the invisible helmet that undead, elementals, golems and so on wear to be protected from critical hits. And their natural weapons - claws and so on. Bandits and ogres fight with different weapons than they leave behind. I don't know how many items can be carried at most, but some NPC carry more than one of a type. That gnome running from kobolds on the Nashkel Mine map has a bunch of equipment on him but not worn and so not dropped, including a robe of fire resistance and a chain mail he could not even put on. But I think you simply missed Davaeorn's key. He always drops it. Quote
Nathan82 Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) @Gwaihir I've had the same issue happen to me, Daeveron not dropping the key. I think SCS had acidentally replaced it with some random item. I do have quite a lot of mods installed, some of which had added items to him so I think the key got moved to a different space than normal and got replaced but I don't know if or how SCS, or any other mod, adds/replaces items carried by NPCs and whether there are any checks regarding adding/replacing/overwriting essential items. I had to use the console to add in the key. I don't know/ didnt check about any other items he had and whether they all dropped or not. Edited March 29, 2022 by Nathan82 Quote
Gwaihir Posted March 29, 2022 Author Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, temnix said: there are many items that are either equipped with the Undroppable flag set or as not Droppable in item properties. Especially rings, which give immunities. Oh nice, that explains a little bit. Davaeorn's edventar's gift (MAGE05.ITM) indeed is not flagged as droppable; this is probably so he doesn't get stuck in his own triggered web/stinking cloud. This is however a step towards my original theory. I have now replayed that fight four times, and every time I get the same drops. And no river plug key, I'm sure of that. And yeah @Nathan82, we are in the same situation. That's why I'm worried about future encounters with popular NPCs: maybe there's a proper way to add items without affecting the already existing ones, and some mod doesn't respect it? This is the complete list of Davaeorn's items in my install: Spoiler Item 0 Item: CLCK17.ITM (Robe of the Evil Archmagi),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 1 Item: SPHRIN1.ITM (Sapphire ring),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 2 Item: MORING9.ITM (Halaster's Teleport Ring),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 1,Quantity/Charges 2: 1,Quantity/Charges 3: 1,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 3 Item: CDIOUN2.ITM (Flickering White Ioun Stone),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 4 Item: DSMISC01.ITM (Letter),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 5 Item: DSROBE02.ITM (Robe of the Grand Wizard),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( Not stealable(1) ) 14 h Item 6 Item: DTKRND13.ITM (No such index),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 7 Item: DTKRND13.ITM (No such index),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 8 Item: OGI.ITM (Ogi-Luc's Great Robe),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 9 Item: WAND02.ITM (Wand of Fear),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 16,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 10 Item: SCRL66.ITM (Grease),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 11 Item: SCRL73.ITM (Protection From Petrification),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 12 Item: SCRL78.ITM (Protection From Evil),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 13 Item: SCRL79.ITM (Shield),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 14 Item: MAGE05.ITM (Edventar's Gift),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 15 Item: SCRL2U.ITM (Letter),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 16 Item: SCRL2T.ITM (Letter),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 17 Item: SCRL2S.ITM (Letter),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 18 Item: MISC83.ITM (Key to River Plug),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 19 Item: POTN02.ITM (Potion of Fire Resistance),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 20 Item: STAF01.ITM (Quarterstaff),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 21 Item: DART01.ITM (Dart),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 20,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 22 Item: DW#MOVE0.ITM (Mirror),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 23 Item: DW#NODOR.ITM (Mirror),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 24 Item: DW#RND05.ITM (No such index),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Item 25 Item: DW#RND17.ITM (No such index),Duration: 0,Quantity/Charges 1: 0,Quantity/Charges 2: 0,Quantity/Charges 3: 0,Flags: ( No flags set ) 14 h Among those, there are three items I've never seen drop: POTN02, WAND02, and MISC83 (the key). The two mirrors are placeholders for SCS, I think. Edited March 29, 2022 by Gwaihir Quote
Guest Graion@Work Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 Do all items have an item slot assigned to them and if so, which? Weidu should have moved the items from the quick items slot to inventory slots which are also droppable slots if it runs out of the former, but that comes to my mind as one of the reason (the potion can be quaffed fairly easily afterall). Another cause could be that the item in question lacks a dropped artwork. I wouldn't be surprised if that MAGE05.ITM (presuming from Arcane Treasury since I know that one lacks modder prefixes) turns out to be such. But yeah, the items themselves should also be checked. Quote
temnix Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 The games themselves lack prefixes. Or they did until Beamdog came along. And even then their Spirit Lion creature is SPIRLION. One of many examples. These prefixes are only a moderate protection against duplicated and overwritten file names. Mostly this doesn't happen because the possibility of an exact name overlap is just remote. Lets orderly modders sleep easier at night, not much more. But about items and slots: to my knowledge, item-equipping flags don't get removed if an item that Weidu would put in a quick slot gets moved to the backpack because the quickies are full. They end up in the backpack still as UNDROPPABLE. But Weidu doesn't come into this for default items anyhow. The key was Bioware's, they just plunked it in the CRE somewhere (items don't have to lie in their proper places in CREs, you can have a suit of armor with an AC bonus in the belt slot etc., and it will work), then clicked the UNDROPPABLE flag, along with UNSTEALABLE, and that was enough. I don't know how any mod could destroy the key without an outright REPLACE_CRE_ITEM for that slot and that item, which is vandalism. And not something Sword Coast Stratagems is likely to be guilty of. Quote
DavidW Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 56 minutes ago, temnix said: The games themselves lack prefixes. Not entirely true. BG1 doesn't use any sort of prefix system, but by BG2 Bioware was clearly running into some problems with namespace, and is using an internal prefix system, for instance (all for CRE files): FAM for familiars SAH for creatures in the sahuagin city UD for creatures in the underdark ZIL for Illasera's flunkies In general in BG2 you see groups of creatures referred to as [thing]01...[thing]06, whereas BG1 tends to just use bespoke names. IWD is intermediate between BG1 and BG2. IWD2 is extremely systematic: every creature name starts with two digits indicating the area it's found in, or 00 for area-neutral creatures. Quote
subtledoctor Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, temnix said: These prefixes are only a moderate protection against duplicated and overwritten file names "moderate" protection? Edited March 29, 2022 by subtledoctor Quote
DavidW Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 42 minutes ago, subtledoctor said: "moderate" protection? Don't tell me you've never overwritten your own namespace Quote
mickabouille Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 1 hour ago, DavidW said: Don't tell me you've never overwritten your own namespace But then you know who to blame Quote
Graion Dilach Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 1 hour ago, DavidW said: Don't tell me you've never overwritten your own namespace I actually started a documentation for myself to assign the third character as a mod/project prefix, so I don't. I won't have 40 separate projects, so I don't expect that this'll fail on me. Quote
Gwaihir Posted March 29, 2022 Author Posted March 29, 2022 9 hours ago, Guest Graion@Work said: Do all items have an item slot assigned to them and if so, which? Here's how item slots look: Spoiler So items without a slot are WAND02 (wand of fear), POTN02(potion of fire resistance), MISC83(key to river plug), DW#NODOR (mirror). There is basically a perfect match with the items not getting dropped. MAGE05.ITM, as far as I can tell, it's vanilla. Did a full search for it inside the extracted mods folder, but nothing, and weidufilechangelog returns the same. It's the only Davaeorn's item without the droppable flag, so it shouldn't be dropped. Quote
Graion Dilach Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 Well, that covers it then, because indeed items without an item slot assigned to them are unavailable. I don't know what to suggest there, everything works by design - you have too many mods adding stuff to the inventory instead of actually equipping them (although rereading the list, poor sod ended up with three robes so he can't even equip them all). You can move the key manually to the quick item slot or something. Yeah, I was wrong with MAGE05, it is one of those immunity-provider dummy items the game likes to use. Quote
subtledoctor Posted March 29, 2022 Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Graion Dilach said: actually started a documentation for myself to assign the third character as a mod/project prefix, so I don't. Yeah. At this point my mods add something like 20,000 files, and a lot of names are generated programmatically, so I’ve started to use secondary prefixes and algorithms to keep things separate. Unfortunately I didn’t start keeping track until after making several mods with a bunch of lazy/non-algorithmic filenames… Edited March 29, 2022 by subtledoctor Quote
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