4udr4n

Hey @phlaphee I think you have some pretty similar aims for your install as I do for mine.

I enjoyed looking at your companion list, here's mine (great minds etc.).

Some thoughts on install order:

• Is Turnabout EET compatible?
• UB is quite late, but perhaps you have moved that now?
• Is Jan's Extended quest EET ready?
• NPCEE has worked much better for me than stratagems:4100.
• EET Tweaks after EET_end - is this stable and is it to allow changes?

9 hours ago, Connelly said:

Hidden Adventures says in its readme that the Anomen component should go after Ajantis BG2, NPC Tweak and Item Upgrade

Split out and moved after npc_tweak, thanks.

9 hours ago, Connelly said:

Some mods seem to look for Ajantis BG1, so I put it immediately after BG1NPC. It might be fine to do it with the Coran and Xan friendship mods, just to keep the shared content together? But I don't think there's a real good reason for that.

I've had a small reshuffle of NPC mods, but as @jastey says I am not keen to move mods out of their category without very good reason and certainly not just to keep related content together.

9 hours ago, Connelly said:

"Spritual hammer component is incompatible with Spell Revisions" How so? I can't find anything about that.

I have not always been diligent with adding source links, but I recall a forum thread discussing this. It is possible that one of he mods has updated to correct it since so it bears following up on and/or testing.

9 hours ago, Connelly said:

The incompatibility between Cowled Menace and Unofficial Item Pack is only with the later's main component. The rest is fine.

Noted.

9 hours ago, Connelly said:

Why would you want to install Nostalgia Pack after "ARESTORATION, BG1UB, UB, XAN, TYRISFLARE, KELSEY" in particular? Seems like a random choice of mods for that. Similarly, why would SCS be incompatible with Skie - Cost?

Nostalgia pack ones are from .ini or readmes, ask the mod author/maintainer. For now I am taking published compatibility info as gospel. Testing any unresolvable clashes can come later.

No idea re: skiecost and strategems. Fancy going digging?
 

9 hours ago, Connelly said:

I haven't tested it, but I think Epic Thieving should go after anything rogue HLA related (RR, Refinements), at least for the Epic trap setting component, as it changes the trap skill and HLAs. Probably clashes with the combat skill system from SubtleD Combat Skills & Proficiencies.

Very likely, I already have it very late. @subtledoctor may know more.

45 minutes ago, jastey said:

I think I already said earlier (but apparently phrased it badly) that RtD should be installed late, after any quest and NPC mods or actually any mods that would add reply options or interjections to SoD, because otherwise its tracking component might miss (new) transactions. That includes Themed Tweaks, btw. Thus, my advice to install it late.

That is... a lot of mods to consider. I will give this some thought.

16 minutes ago, BlackStrapMolasses said:

Heroes, Thieves and Moneylenders & Ding0's Quest Pack

Yes, I've changed the text colour of the install before/after for these and several other mods that need review. I'll set up conditional formatting to do this automatically when I figure our how (easy on excel, not working how I imaging on sheets!).

16 minutes ago, BlackStrapMolasses said:

- a few of the mods I thought of including in the next install (Dace, Auren Aseph, Chatty Imoen, Verr'Sza BG2EE) are on your non-EET list but their readmes suggest they are EET compatible. Can you say more?

I'm likely still behind on some mods if they are not on the EET compatibility guide and/or if they are new companion mods (because I am personally less interested in that category).
I will add those later and would appreciate any further suggestions (here or as comments on the sheet itself).

18 minutes ago, BlackStrapMolasses said:

- are you adding new mods?  I'd quite like to see Skitia's NPCs on this list.

Absolutely, similar to the point above I am likely unaware of a whole host of potentially compatible/interesting mods. I'll take a look at these this evening.

I may create a secondary document to allow submissions of new mods and copy them across.

22 minutes ago, BlackStrapMolasses said:

This is a stellar effort on your part
(...)
May you roll natural 20s in all your endeavours!

Thanks, getting close to being something I may actively share elsewhere. Volunteering to help maintain?

My irl dice rolls are cursed, I prefer card games and pc games to avoid the nat 1s that plague me!

On 10/20/2023 at 5:45 PM, jastey said:

I don't think there is any mod that needs RtD installed before it. All NPC mods depending on its tracking system get the needed input inside the game, independent on install order. (If that was the question.)

OK, readme:

Quote

COMPATIBILITY NOTE

Install Road to Discovery very late in install order. This mod should be installed AFTER the following mods:
-Themed Tweaks
-Jastey's SoD Tweakpack
-any mod that adds reply options or transactions to SoD, like NPC mods or story tweak mods.

sodrtd.ini:

Quote

ACBre, ajantisbg1, bg2fixpack, biffsodtutorial, c#anotherfinehell, c#brage, c#brandock, c#husam, c#sodboabri, c#sodtweaks, EET, imoen_forever, themed_tweaks

If the NPC mods are listed only due to the tracking, sodrtd can be installed in the quest section after other sod quest/storyline mods.

If not, it will need to be pushed much later, well into the companion/npc section.

Please advise.
 

On 10/20/2023 at 5:45 PM, jastey said:

I'd rather they'd be broken out

Added to my to-do list. This is low priority for me personally as I am not planning to use any new companions in my next couple of playthroughs. As always if anyone else feels like helping with this, speak up.

On 10/20/2023 at 4:56 PM, morpheus562 said:

No, there are too many mods that add items where I do not want to get into the business of specifically having to call out different mods that add items. Blanket statement as already provided covers for everything.

While I strongly believe that as voluntary creators, modders should be free from obligations and expectations, particularly regarding knowledge of other authors' mods; when specific compatibility information is made available, it is often more helpful to users than blanket statements. This could added as example alongside your blanket statement.

Regardless, I have and will only ever make suggestions and it is up to mod authors and maintainers to decide whether to act on them.

On 10/20/2023 at 6:10 PM, Connelly said:

I might be wrong, but what I do with Forgotten Armaments is just move the NWN2, ability score, nerf apr and critical hit immunity components after SCS and/or CDTweaks, because there are a few kit and tweak mods that keep adding weapons among the kit, tweak and tactics mods. Seems like the least painful option;

Yes, this is what I've ended up with too, thanks!

On 10/20/2023 at 9:03 PM, DavidW said:

It's a bit complicated. By default, IWDSpells silently skips a spell that's already present. But there is a specific list of spells it's told to overwrite: for instance, it overwrites MS1-MS3, so that they're not mismatched stylistically with MS4-MS7. SR has a different (and much shorter, indeed blank I think) overwrite list, so IWDSpells detects SR when deciding which overwrite list to use. That's the detection code that wasn't working properly.

Seems concrete that iwdification should be after spell_rev for compatibility unless/until spell_rev becomes able to detect iwdification.

Currently the spells section looks like this:
 

39 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

I meant only move IWD1_EET, IWD2_EET, and TotLM-in-BG2EE. I think those ate fairly unmoored from the other quest/NPC mods.

Ah, DSotSC also say before IWDification but it is only the spell components so I have split those out.

1 hour ago, Graion Dilach said:

There's already a workaround for this one though, installing MiH Spell Pack's summon spell component will rewrite all those spells regardless of source.

This is helpful, I have placed mih_sp directly after IWDification and scs IWD spells and added a note that it will overwrite.

40 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Those readmes were written in ~2004. Anything I have touched (SubtkeMods, UnearthedArcana, and Refinements) patches rather than 

Noted, but still the case for S&S and RR, so presumably refinements needs to be after them?

1 hour ago, Delior said:

- I don't believe Revised Magic Battles and Enhanced Powergaming Scripts are fully compatible, at least not at the moment.  My EPGS installation had errors when I tried installing it with RMB, and the EPGS readme notes compatibility with most of SD's mods, but not RMB.  

Thanks, noted.

1 hour ago, subtledoctor said:

IWDification overwriting some of SR's icons with its green ones. (It also messes up SR's Cure Moderate Wounds icon. I have a hotfix for these things if people are interested.)

Yes please

1 hour ago, morpheus562 said:

I already have this listed in my readme

Great! Then I suggest adding a specific mention of IWDification's 2-handed axes component. Maybe also adding to the .ini.

9 hours ago, morpheus562 said:

Yes, Forgotten Armament's NWN Style Weapons will identify if an axe is 2h and update accordingly. Additionally, if the 2h axe also does any setting of a attribute, Forgotten Armament will set it to increment.

So needs to be after IWDification right? Can I recommend adding this to your readme. Does this hold for any other mods (beyond mih_ip, Sod2BG2 items, TheCalling: Exotic Item Pack).

8 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

I don’t know that that is really necessary. I’ve never split it up and I haven’t noticed any problems. 

Same here and I've used on many previous successful runs. My concern is that it may be overwriting or overwritten by other things so potentially we are missing content, it just isn't causing any game breaking issues (yet).

8 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

— The spell packs should indeed be before TotLM-in-BG2EE (and IWD1_EET) but I rather think the solution is to move those quest mods later, rather than moving IWDification earlier. 

Moving the quest mods later puts them after item mods, which risks mod-added items not being picked up. E.g. thalan specifically says it comes after ntotsc.

8 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

— Doesn’t make sense to have IWDification spell packs in a different place than SCS IWD spell packs, as they are functionally identical. 

— Expanded Polymorph doesn’t really matter, it tweaks the spell so the only rule I can think of is to go before any mods that might clone the spell (kit mods and SCS AI). 

Probably true, though I understand IWDification is preferred and should come first.
Safe to just advise Expanded polymorph goes with spell packs? Does it get undone by SR or anything else?

8 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

— I haven’t looked much at the class updates, my guess would be that there is less a matter of install order issues with RR as simple mutual incompatibility (in which case install order doesn’t matter). 

IWDification readme:

Quote

IWD Class Updates: Bard: Add IWD Bard Songs should be installed after the Rogue Rebalancing and Garrick: Tales of a Troubadour mods. Note that IWDification's new bard songs will replace Rogue Rebalacing's normal trueclass bard song, but it will not affect the kitted bard songs and will preserve the HLA bard songs--e.g. a trueclass bard will get IWDification's bard songs, but they will get RR's version of the Enhanced Bard Song as an HLA selection. Kitted bards will just get Rogue Reblancing's songs.

Feels like we can just split the class changes and put them much later after rr.

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

I just installed IWDification-->SR and I don't see anything doubled up. It does however appear that SR will overwrite any shared spells with its own versions, where IWDification will not. Only examples I can think of off-hand are Cure Moderate Wounds and Vitriolic Sphere. In essence, if these two mods are installed together then you will always get the SR version of those two spells. This order additionally does not require Graion's water elemental add-on mod, so... I tentatively want to say this might be preferable? Maybe? I just hesitate because it is less-well-tested. We need intrepid experimenters to confirm!

This seems logical, I'll test it and recommend for now (with notes).

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

In regard to my mods: note that the latest versions of Faiths & Powers - v0.86 as of this writing - is a single mod that no longer needs to be split up. It should be installed after all other kit mods, i.e. where you currently have FnP Multiclass. Also note that the IR secondary components (specifically the 'Weapon Changes' component) need to be installed before FnP. So you could shift IR up above where you currently have FnP Multiclass (I don't think it conflicts with anything else there), or you could shift FnP down below IR. I think either way would work without issues.

For the other recent changes: just change the name of SubtleD's Random Tweaks to SubtleD's Spell Tweaks, but otherwise leave it where it is. And add Combat Skills & Proficiencies... I don't really know, probably after SCS? I currently have it after aTweaks and it seems to be working well.

Done, thanks!

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

I think Refinements wants to be installed before Might & Guile. That's how it is in my current game - but I can't check the files right now to see if they are as they should be. I will confirm when I get the chance.

I am curious where you got the S&S recommendation to be installed after RR. The copy of the mod that I have has no such info...

Your readme says might_and_guile before refinements. I'll change it if you change the readme! 

Song_and_silence checks for rr (stated in readme), don't think the reverse is true hence always put it after. I believe there was discussion of this on the rr compatibility thread on shs but it is unavailable.

Also I think HLA modification is generally last mod wins, see readmes for refinements, rr, strategms, song_and_silence.

1 hour ago, jastey said:

Thank you for your work on this.

Road to Discovery should be last mod with SoD content. If it is installed after other mods that add interjections or reply options to SoD, not all instances will be tracked correctly.

EDIT: The NPC mods relying on it for triggers do not need it installed before them.

Does this mean all SoD quest and npc mods that are not specifically relying upon it? Is there a list of those that do?

56 minutes ago, Graion Dilach said:

The edits SR apply to the base spells are very rough. IWDification's spell updates are more systematic. It feels more reliable to me to either fix or document and workaround the issues caused by the SR->IWDification order, than to attempt flipping them and assume that SR will also properly update the IWDification spells where necessary.

I am somewhat inclined to avoid SR at present personally, for many reasons, and am pleased to see so many well maintained mods covering similar ground in better, more compatible and targeted ways.

Both my preferences and any potential fixes are irrelevant for this guide though, the aim to offer the most likely compatible install order.

51 minutes ago, jastey said:

bg1re is more of an Encounter&Quest mod. I would install it before BG1NPC (but after EndlessBG1+Transitions).

I would install RE (Romantic Encounter) before BGII NPC Mods (exception I4E) in case they react to it. EDIT: Sir Ajantis fpr BGII for example needs to go after RE because crossmod is in the main Ajantis BGII component.

Done, thanks!

51 minutes ago, jastey said:

Cowled Menace is quite late after the NPC mods, is that the recommended install order?

Readme says after npc mods. It is a bit vague and I do worry about a large quest mod so late, but have not had time to look into this yet. @Daxtreme any thoughts?

51 minutes ago, jastey said:

These NPC mods have crossmod components that would need to go late:
Ascalon's Breagar
AjantisBG1 Expansion
Brage's Redemption
(Brandock the Mage)
(Husam NPC)
Grey the Dog

Do these components need to be broken out or can the whole mod just be late in the npc section?

51 minutes ago, jastey said:

Some comments to Solaufein's Rescue:
Solaufein's Rescue has crossmod content with Eilistraee's Song (should be installed after Eilistraee's Song - for info, is already considered in the list)

Solaufein's Rescue has a crossmod component that should go after any subrace mods. In the list subrace mod is in between NPC mods - I had one bug report for the install order subrace mod - Solaufein's Rescue main component so I usually recommend to install the main component first, compatibility component after subrace mods.

- That said, I have no idea where subrace mods would go in install order in general.

Crossmod Banter for Solaufein are inside the Crossmod Banter Pack (just fi)

This is just a hint that the main component of Solaufein's rescue could go earlier (it also contains a quest that other mod NPCs might react to, although I don't know any specific

I've moved C#Solaufein early in npc, added ref to elistraee and crossmodbg2. I've split out the compatibility component and stuck it after subrace.

Currently @tipun's subrace mod is with kits, but perhaps that needs looking at.

Should I add a column to list mods that overlap or share components as this is perhaps different to being incompatible. Examples include cliffkey and eet_tweaks or iwdification and cdtweaks.

It may also make sense to split functional incompatibility from conceptual incompatibility (such as romantic encounters not fitting with some npc mods).

Maybe this is overcomplicating and I should just describe the above in the incompatibility column?

IWDification is currently in the list as 1 entry, but I suspect it should be split quite a bit, not 100% sure on exactly how though:

• Class updates should go after RR and Garricktt (and song_and_silence?)
• Spell Packs need to be near the end of quest mods, before totlm and dsotsc. This puts it well before stratagems' IWD spells and the various other compatible spell mods, but also before item mods, none of which list it in their .ini but I wonder if there is a risk of issues. @Bartimaeus are these fine before SR/SRR? Do they interact?
• Expanded Polymorph seems like it should go with spell packs?
• Damage Animations I have no idea.
• I suspect that 2 handed axes might interact with some other item mods - any insight would be welcome.  @morpheus562does forgotten-armaments touch these?
• Randomized Enemy Equipment seems like perhaps after other item mods like randomiser? @CamDawg any suggestions?

3 hours ago, Granger77 said:

Many many thanks for putting this together!

My pleasure.

The best possible thanks is adding any extra info or install errors that you can (here or via comments), and reporting any undocumented conflicts or bugs to the mod authors/maintainers.

46 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

Great job

I mean, it's some pretty mediocre data entry for now, but thanks!

I've just realised your old mods are still in there, am I right to think I may need to clean up a little since you split them up? Scales is deprecated, right? Any others?

On 10/16/2023 at 4:21 AM, subtledoctor said:

There is possibly 4udr4n's project, but when I went to see if I might take it as an example, they seem to be waving people off

Big update done over the last 24 hours, should be a good starting point, has a lot more compatibility data now.

If anyone has time to review their own mods on there and comment or reply in the thread with any suggestions that would be great.

Should be good to use now, I've been though most of the .ini and readmes and a not inconsiderable amount of forum content.

I'm testing a few installs right now, just speedrunning to some possible issues in prep for a big run.

I would hugely welcome input from modders regarding their own mods and know but undocumented info about crossmod and conflicts.

Ah, sorry, 

I meant why are they before arestorationp? Generally that and ub are recommended as the first quest mods, so I'm curious why you have them earlier.

First good luck with the run! May your bugs be fixable and your party prosper.

I have a few questions about your install order, if you find a spare minute that would be great:
 

1. All the quest mods prior to arestorationp; why are they there?
2. How have you found transitions? Are you expecting to have to console through the odd issue?
3. Tell me more about Z_HASTE_FIX.TP2; is this a candidate for inclusion in one of your mods?

8 hours ago, Daulmakan said:

I just uploaded a new version that should take care of this problem and make it fully compatible.

Excellent, thanks!

Sorry to be a pain, but does this mean you would expect EET compatibility as well? I am keen to test if so.

5 hours ago, Graion Dilach said:

I see it as a second Wheels atm

This is exactly what I've been thinking, I love the look of the mod, but everywhere I go I see bugs and incompatibility.

On 6/14/2022 at 7:27 AM, jastey said:

v2.4: To prevent a crash upon transition after BG1, install all components of reward houses from Duke Eltan:

Can this also be avoided by installing none of those components?

Item pack looks great but does not state EE or EET compatibility, Klatu works well and is compatible.

Big update done, added @Lava's quest mods and @subtledoctor's new mods.

Running a test install with a whole bunch of these now and will update with any issues as they emerge.

16 hours ago, morpheus562 said:

• Nerfed version deals 1d8 acid damage on hit (down from 2d4).
• Nerfed version acid resistance reduction on hit now 10% (down from 25% reduction)
• Nerfed version only deals 2 acid damage to anyone damaging the person wielding the weapon (down from 1d2 acid damage per second for 6 seconds)

Seems fair. IR/IRR still don't give CF it's full set of canon abilities (see here), which might make it a more viable choice rather than nerfing Sanchuudoku and therefore Kuroisan. I think the sentient weapons would benefit from a mod dedicated to them, with quests to unlock their full powers.

@JohnBob don't mention it.

15 minutes ago, morpheus562 said:

I like the power level of where it is at, so I am not considering nerfing/altering it further. The concern for me isn't the power level but how quickly Celestial Fury gets replaced.

OK, just meant that if it were sufficiently different to not be a straight replacement to CF, then it would matter less how quickly it becomes available. It might be a superior option for some characters, but not others.

What does it currently do? (feel free to point me in the right direction and I'll check the mod files)

Sounds very positive to me, though is there a reason not to nerf/alter Kuroisan's Katana further?

I'm also aware that PI does some of this already.

3 minutes ago, jastey said:

That is a magnificent idea.

I'm manually doing that, but if @ahungry can script something to read automatically from .ini that would be cool. I'll do the manual bits (locating the repos presumably).

Hey @ahungry this is a great resource.

I'm already gathering most of the info you use in my guide here, so I'd be happy to add and update entries but want to ensure I do so accurately.

Can you answer a few questions for me please?

1. 'Dist' seems to be either the github repo owner or the mod's homepage site. You seem to have preferred the site over the author (i.e. Beamdog rather than mod author). Is that correct?
2. 'Tag' looks like it might be taken from github topics? Is that right?
3. If there is evidence to support other tags can they be added or do you want to stick to listed topics?
4. Are you automatically pulling any of this info from github?
5. Are you interested in pulling compatibility info from .ini?
6. Are you interested in displaying current version and/or date of last release?

Thanks!