Item Revisions Mod

[Demivrgvs]

I've worked on SR for half a year and it's "already" out there. From here to the next three years I may have the time to make it completely patching, but I preferred this solution to a delayed release of X years.

That is reasonable enough to expect, from a development perspective. But, to nitpick your first statement, it's been over a year since the initial post, and this is not technically "out there" yet .

SR's initial post dates "Dec 24 2007", which I don't think it's over a year. If you instead would refer to IR, than it dates "May 17 2007", and it has taken "so long" because for some reasons I preferred to finish SR first, but I think I can safely say both projects have a quite big scale.

 

I second everything said by Mike, and of course I'll do my best to allow compatibility between my mods and as many others as possible. Thus don't say my mods <won't be "compatible" by most BGT players' standards..."> when it's not true.

 

It's too bad you don't have a forum for this somewhere, because the information buried in this massive post would be easier to review if split up into separate topics in one place.

Well, it doesn't depend on me, and you're right this post has become very huge, but the first post is quite comprehensive and it should allow you to navigate through this massive thread easily. Fortunately SR's forums went public just few hours before the first "G3's collapse"!

[Miloch]

SR's initial post dates "Dec 24 2007", which I don't think it's over a year. If you instead would refer to IR, than it dates "May 17 2007", and it has taken "so long" because for some reasons I preferred to finish SR first, but I think I can safely say both projects have a quite big scale.

Yeah, I meant this one... didn't notice the acronym use. I didn't say it was a long time either way. I've been working on smaller mods for longer (but mainly because I decided overwriting wasn't cool, particularly not for existing creatures).

Thus don't say my mods <won't be "compatible" by most BGT players' standards..."> when it's not true.

I'm going to stick by my original statement: if it overwrites a bunch of existing files, it isn't fully compatible with other mods, which is kind of the point of people who play BGT (they like stacking a lot of mods together, not to mention BG1 and BG2).

 

Now that you've both clarified your development strategy and commitment to making it more compatible, I'm fine with that for now.

 

While we're on the subject of compatibility, any plans to make this Tutu compatible? Sure, most of your items only exist on BG2/BGT, and can be skipped with one fat ACTION_IF statement. But I imagine a lot of them are also in BG1/Tutu, and can be made compatible pretty much just by using a variable for the initial underscore in Tutu (which is set to ~~ for BG2/BGT).

 

Spell Revisions might already be Tutu compatible, since Tutu just uses the BG2 spell system, including the same resource names.

[Demivrgvs]

Now that you've both clarified your development strategy and commitment to making it more compatible, I'm fine with that for now.

While we're on the subject of compatibility, any plans to make this Tutu compatible? Sure, most of your items only exist on BG2/BGT, and can be skipped with one fat ACTION_IF statement. But I imagine a lot of them are also in BG1/Tutu, and can be made compatible pretty much just by using a variable for the initial underscore in Tutu (which is set to ~~ for BG2/BGT).

Indeed we want both IR and SR to be compatibile with Tutu, and I do think at least SR already is, anyway Mike can surely handle it pretty well.

[J Beau]

I have been re-reading some of your items and I have a few comments.

 

Adjatha The Drinker +2

Equipped Abilities:

Hit Points: +10 bonus

Saving Throws: +2 bonus vs. spell

Combat Abilities:

Spell Drinker: arcane casters hit by The Drinker must save vs. spell or lose one memorized spell, raising wielder's maximum hit points by 2 for 1 hour

THAC0: +2 bonus

Damage: 1D8 + 2

 

Notes: I've changed immunity to charm (a quite common ability) with a more generic defense against spells. The added 10 hit points and spell drinker ability aim to make it more similar to its PnP version. Note that some monsters (like Demons and Planetars) are considered arcane casters.

Most of these creatures can only be hit by +3 weapons.

 

Also there are now no +4 daggers in SOA. That means no daggers to use on demi liches. You don't think there should be at least 1 +4 weapon of each weapon type in SOA even if you nerf their abilities so they're not as good as some +3 weapons?

 

Dagger of Venom +2 is included in Rogue Rebalancing.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Crom Faeyr

Most players voted for this solution

Well, I'll just have to /*it out*/ then.

 

I probably have to make it optional for taking inot account BGT players. By the way, isn't easyTUTU much better than BGT?

No, definitely not, at least in every case.

 

Most of these creatures can only be hit by +3 weapons.

 

Also there are now no +4 daggers in SOA. That means no daggers to use on demi liches. You don't think there should be at least 1 +4 weapon of each weapon type in SOA even if you nerf their abilities so they're not as good as some +3 weapons?

Most of those things can be solved by making some items Sure Striking(in IWD2), by making the item have greater(5) magic level than the +factor.

[Demivrgvs]

I have been re-reading some of your items and I have a few comments.

Comments/suggestions are always welcome!

You're right about Adjatha +2 not being able to affect most powerful demons and planetars, I'll correct the note. Anyway I believe the sword is fine as it is and it's quite powerful too, am I wrong?

Also there are now no +4 daggers in SOA. That means no daggers to use on demi liches. You don't think there should be at least 1 +4 weapon of each weapon type in SOA even if you nerf their abilities so they're not as good as some +3 weapons?

Daggers aren't the only type of weapon without a +4 specimen during SoA, and I'm not sure there absolutely has to be one of each, but in this case it's actually my fault. I was going to restore Life-Drinker +4 (Entreri's dagger) but then I discarded it because of the usual "it's already restored by" problem (in this case Unfinished Business). I'll do something about it sooner or later...but restoring Entreri is quite beyond IR's scope unfortunately. In case aVENGER read this: I'd love to see something like that UB component done by you!

Dagger of Venom +2 is included in Rogue Rebalancing.

I know it (Xan mod too), and I've not added it to the game yet. Anyway dagger of Venom may be an exception because it is supposed to be non-unique, thus I could probably add it somewhere...the fence on the second floor of Gaelan's home seems appropriate.

 

Most of those things can be solved by making some items Sure Striking(in IWD2), by making the item have greater(5) magic level than the +factor.

Yeah, I've thought about this ability, and never used it thinking it was an awful one, but if players think is a good solution I may add it somewhere.

[Ilyich]

Not all people use Unfinished Business, myself included, on account of it being a broken piece of crap that has not been updated for bugfixes in over 2 years.

[aVENGER_(RR)]

I was going to restore Life-Drinker +4 (Entreri's dagger) but then I discarded it because of the usual "it's already restored by" problem (in this case Unfinished Business). I'll do something about it sooner or later...but restoring Entreri is quite beyond IR's scope unfortunately. In case aVENGER read this: I'd love to see something like that UB component done by you!

 

Heh, it's kind of funny that I've been asked about that several times on various forums and by different people.

 

Anyway, sure, I could make my own version the Entreri/Drizzt encounter however, I'd have to familiarize myself with Salvatore's books before taking that on (I haven't actually read any of them yet). So, don't expect this to be done anytime soon, but I will put it on my "cool things to do if I find the time" list.

[Daulmakan]

Just did a quick glance. So far, I'd give a thumbs up to the modifications proposed for the following items: Shield Amulet, Metaspell Amulet, Periapt of Life Protection, Amulet of the Seldarine, Amulet of Cheetah Speed, Ice Star, Boots of Elvenkind, Gargoyle Boots, Gloves of Healing, Bracers of Blinding Strike, Woundrous Gloves, Tzu Zan's Bracers, Nature's Vengeance, Montolio's Cloak, Enkidu's Armor, Circlet of Netheril, Ring of Invisibility, Heartwood Ring, Hindo's Doom, and Yoshimo's Katana.

 

Other than a few exceptions, those are items I never use, so changing them is a welcome addition.

 

Some random suggestions:

 

* Blessed Bracers: Nice. Perhaps make them equippable by good aligned clerics?

 

* Skull of Death: I think I recall seeing somewhere that the Death effect was subject to a saving throw from the enemy (making the save meant that the effect didn't occur, unlike the spell). Am I just misremembering? Would you consider changing this if I'm not?

 

* Ring of Free Action: like it, mainly because of the Boots of Speed combination. I wouldn't object that the user were immune to haste, though.

 

* Spider's Bane: also like it. How about placing it in Pai'Na's corpse/lair? (it'd follow a trend ).

[Demivrgvs]

Anyway, sure, I could make my own version the Entreri/Drizzt encounter however, I'd have to familiarize myself with Salvatore's books before taking that on (I haven't actually read any of them yet). So, don't expect this to be done anytime soon, but I will put it on my "cool things to do if I find the time" list.

P.S I was going to suggest you to make Entreri "flee" or something when reaching 1HP because killing him doesn't sound right...but then I realized the player is already allowed to kill Drizzt.

 

Just did a quick glance. So far, I'd give a thumbs up to the modifications proposed for the following items: Shield Amulet, Metaspell Amulet, Periapt of Life Protection, Amulet of the Seldarine, Amulet of Cheetah Speed, Ice Star, Boots of Elvenkind, Gargoyle Boots, Gloves of Healing, Bracers of Blinding Strike, Woundrous Gloves, Tzu Zan's Bracers, Nature's Vengeance, Montolio's Cloak, Enkidu's Armor, Circlet of Netheril, Ring of Invisibility, Heartwood Ring, Hindo's Doom, and Yoshimo's Katana.

 

Other than a few exceptions, those are items I never use, so changing them is a welcome addition.

I'm glad you like them...I hope it doesn't mean you don't like all the other changes. My main goal is exactly to make previously under-used items worth to be found, and to allow the widest and most varied selection of items possible.

Blessed Bracers: Nice. Perhaps make them equippable by good aligned clerics?

It seems reasonable.

Skull of Death: I think I recall seeing somewhere that the Death effect was subject to a saving throw from the enemy (making the save meant that the effect didn't occur, unlike the spell). Am I just misremembering? Would you consider changing this if I'm not?

I just noticed I haven't updated it. It now has a Death Gaze attack instead of Death Spell, which is more appropriate to its background/description.

Ring of Free Action: like it, mainly because of the Boots of Speed combination. I wouldn't object that the user were immune to haste, though.

I think Free Action should protect the recipient from effects/spells that would hinder his movements, I don't see why he should be protected from an effect that actually enhance his "free action".

Spider's Bane: also like it. How about placing it in Pai'Na's corpse/lair? (it'd follow a trend )

Again one of those items "restored" by UB. I'll probably restore them anyway and just add a check to skip them if UB is installed.

[Salk]

Your voice is melodious to my ears, Demivrgvs!

 

Keep up the good job and a small request: I understand you want to proceed to "Kits Revisions" after Item Revisions is out.

 

I dare give you a word of advice about instead prioritize Spell Revisions v2 and, if it's the case (read: annoying bugs), Item Revisons v2.

 

It's so much better to have two polished products and one still in the realm of the ideas than having three incomplete mods.

 

I am saying this with all respect and admiration for your (and Mike's) work of course.

 

Keep it up!

[Demivrgvs]

Keep up the good job and a small request: I understand you want to proceed to "Kits Revisions" after Item Revisions is out.

 

I dare give you a word of advice about instead prioritize Spell Revisions v2 and, if it's the case (read: annoying bugs), Item Revisons v2.

I've already started to work on Spell Revisions v2 while waiting for Mike to finalize the last few things concerning IR's optional components. Even if I'd like to start working on Kit Revisions asap, fixing any issues or bugs of pre-existing mods will always take precedence (you may have noticed I've already posted a hotfix for two small issues of SR). Furthmore I think I'll start KR by just discussing it in the forums. I've already done parts of it internally (ideally for playing with it myself, though I never managed to really play BG in the last year), but for really working on it I'll have to find some help (I do hope Mike will still be in ), especially because it probably has to be fully patching this time (rejoice Miloch! ).

[Bursk]

Demivrgvs, thanks for your previous replies. I have a few more points I'd like to discuss:

 

Crom Faeyr:

jarno mikkola seems to suggest that you can't use the Crom Faeyr in non-throwing mode and use a second weapon in your other hand. Is this correct? Why would the game stop you from using two melee weapons at the same time i.e. with the Crom Faeyr being in melee mode?

 

AC/DEX Stuff:

Thanks for clarifying this. It'll certainly mean considerably less micromanagement than I'd feared. As for the shields, I'll stick to giving my single-class warriors large shields, with medium or smaller for everyone else.

 

Spider's Bane:

You say "I'll probably restore them anyway and just add a check to skip them if UB is installed" but do you actually mean "I'll probably restore them anyway and just add a check to skip them if the Pai'Na/Spider's Bane Quest component is installed"?

 

Thanks again.

[Demivrgvs]

Demivrgvs, thanks for your previous replies. I have a few more points I'd like to discuss:

Thanks for pointing out things that can be discussed, I think it's the best way to improve my mod. Else I would only be able to do it as I please and nothing more.

Crom Faeyr

jarno mikkola seems to suggest that you can't use the Crom Faeyr in non-throwing mode and use a second weapon in your other hand. Is this correct? Why would the game stop you from using two melee weapons at the same time i.e. with the Crom Faeyr being in melee mode?

It's a hardcoded issue. But an insane idea is popping up in my mind right now...it should be possibile to give Crom Faeyr an ability which switches the ranged version with a completely different item for the melee one. This way you should be able to dual wield it again, the drawback would be that it won't be possible a super-quick change via melee icon during a fight. I'll try it out asap and let you know, what you players think about it?

 

If a tweak like this works and is well accepted by players it may also solve the issues for other weapons sharing the same "problem" (e.g. mostly throwing axes like Azuredge), not to mention the problem with throwing daggers (which should also have a different attack per round rate when used in melee).

 

AC/DEX Stuff

Thanks for clarifying this. It'll certainly mean considerably less micromanagement than I'd feared. As for the shields, I'll stick to giving my single-class warriors large shields, with medium or smaller for everyone else.

 

Spider's Bane

You say "I'll probably restore them anyway and just add a check to skip them if UB is installed" but do you actually mean "I'll probably restore them anyway and just add a check to skip them if the Pai'Na/Spider's Bane Quest component is installed"?

Oh my, you're right, tought I'm not sure it can be done, I'll do my best.

[Bursk]

Cool. Hold on, I have more stuff to say...

 

Right, my confusion over the Crom Faeyr arose from the fact that the descritpion says "Notes: can't be used as off-hand weapon anymore" but it doesn't say "can't be used to dual-wield with either!". I know you'll never get a consensus on your changes, and I was fine with things when you couldn't use it in your off-hand, but losing this and the ability to dual-wield is too much IMO. Sure, you can now throw it if you want, but the cost for me is too great. I think you're simply limiting its use far too much.

 

Problem is, if you do want your character to dual-wield, putting proficiency points into war hammers would be something of a mistake, I think. Finding one of the best weapons in the game and not being able to use it (because the only party member using war hammers is your dual-wielder) would suck.

 

Whether or not your insane idea would work I don't know, but it's intriguing. If it's just simply too insane to work, perhaps you would consider making a second version of the weapon that removes the throwing ability and allows dual-wielding - I guess this would just be a file or two, so perhaps it could be included in the download along with instructions on how to install the alternative version. Or, how about an install time option of a) throwable but non-dual wield version and b) non-throwable but dual-wield version?

 

I know nothing about coding and the like, so am suggesting this without knowing if it's even possible or worth the hassle.