Offtopic Anvil Discussion

[aVENGER_(RR)]

2. If you did not enjoy the mod. Then take it with a grain of salt, and just keep it to yourself. As the mod has already been created, and the views and opinions of a single person are most likely not going to sway the outcome of the situation one way or another.

 

As a modder, I have to disagree with this. IMO, as long as criticism is presented in a constructive and well intended manner, it's perfectly fine to express your dislike of a particular mod. In certain cases, the modder in question might take some of the criticism to heart and make the appropriate changes in the next mod revision.

 

 

For example, the "Shadow Thief Improvements" component from my own Rogue Rebalancing mod has been heavily criticized in the past for its extreme difficulty level. Upon closely reviewing those comments, I've come to the conclusion that I had unintentionally geared that component toward expert tactical players. In light of that, I chose to revise STI heavily in the recent versions of the mod in order to make it more accessible to a wider audience. OTOH, had I not been notified of the issues I probably would have never reacted in that way.

 

 

However, I fully understand Sikret's and Baronious' point of view. It's one thing to state your opinion of the mod and voice your criticism in a reasonable fashion, but when a player starts to repeat his opinion over and over again, regardless of the modmaker's stated disagreement, and thereby tries to enforce his own vision upon the modmaker then he crosses the line. A mod reflects the design decisions of its creator and they are his/her own to make as he sees fit. In the end, mods are optional and, thanks to WeiDU, all of them be easily uninstalled. The game is quite playable without any of them, so it shouldn't be hard for a player to simply choose not to use any mods which he dislikes.

[CamDawg]

' date='Sep 21 2007, 04:37 PM' post='99085']

2. If you did not enjoy the mod. Then take it with a grain of salt, and just keep it to yourself. As the mod has already been created, and the views and opinions of a single person are most likely not going to sway the outcome of the situation one way or another.

As a modder, I have to disagree with this. IMO, as long as criticism is presented in a constructive and well intended manner, it's perfectly fine to express your dislike of a particular mod. In certain cases, the modder in question might take some of the criticism to heart and make the appropriate changes in the next mod revision.

And in turn, I'll disagree with this. If you release your work to the public, the public is under no obligation to post criticism that's constructive or, for that matter, even nice. I agree with the underlying point you're trying to make, though--unconstructive criticism is, at best, unhelpful and, at worst, someone just being an ass. If you can't handle criticism (constructive or otherwise) you probably shouldn't be releasing work for public consumption.

 

I value good criticism far more than any praise. The former shows how you can improve, the latter makes you complacent and mediocre.

 

And we're way, way off-topic again.

[Gabrielle]

If you release your work to the public, the public is under no obligation to post criticism that's constructive or, for that matter, even nice.

In that case, that person is ignored or considered a troll and dealt with accordingly.

 

 

In BWL's case, post goes bye-bye and poster banned!

[jastey]

' date='Sep 21 2007, 10:37 PM' post='99085']

2. If you did not enjoy the mod. Then take it with a grain of salt, and just keep it to yourself. As the mod has already been created, and the views and opinions of a single person are most likely not going to sway the outcome of the situation one way or another.

 

As a modder, I have to disagree with this.

Me too. I am not perfect, and although I think that my ideas are good (heh!), I not only find criticism helpful, I depend on it to improve my work. Sometimes people suggest changes where I ask myself why I haven't thought of it myself. Of course, I try to go through this stage with my testers and proof readers, before the actual release of the mod, but there will be good ideas and suggestions coming in after the release.

I would be very, very unhappy if no one would talk to me about what he/she thinks are flaws of my mod.

 

Sikret implemented quite a lot of player suggestions into IA, too, btw. It's not that there would be no communication on the forum, but Drew's and Guest!'s analysis hit the nail on the head, so to say.

[Baronius]

As for berelinde saying her normal posts were deleted, well, if some people prefer to believe BWL removes posts that contradict the opinion of administration, I won't try to change their mind. It isn't an easy case anyway. If a troll starts a topic, and there are 16 rude/troll and 1 normal posts in that thread when an administrator notices it, it doesn't make sense to split out that one post -- without context, it would make no sense. (So the thread is removed. Tip: Don't post in trolling threads, start a new one instead.)

 

It's one thing to state your opinion of the mod and voice your criticism in a reasonable fashion, but when a player starts to repeat his opinion over and over again, regardless of the modmaker's stated disagreement, and thereby tries to enforce his own vision upon the modmaker then he crosses the line.

Good point.

 

Additionally, as CamDawg says, noone has "obligation" to phrase criticism nicely or constructively. "Obligation" isn't the keyword. It's a pity nowadays people seem to forget the word "courtesy", and "respect". Temujin and his sort believes they are the the big guys because they practise their "freedom of speech" and express their "opinion" in their "unique, own style". So, while no one has "obligation" to post respectful content at BWL, mod authors and admins also have no "obligation" to allow arrogant, rude or off-topic posts.

[Guest temujin]

Temujin and his sort believes they are the the big guys because they practise their "freedom of speech" and express their "opinion" in their "unique, own style".

"big guys"? "unique style"? What the hell are you on about now? If someone asks a question, I give an honest answer. End of story. You are reading too much between the lines.

 

It's a pity nowadays people seem to forget the word "courtesy", and "respect".

Try not to forget these words yourself before you start lecturing others.

[Guest Mr. X]

OK, I know that this whole debate has basically died down by now, but I was lurking at IA forum again, and I just can't resist pointing this out. I found it quite amusing that Barious chose to reopen the “Disgusting Lies†thread to start a rumour of his own about the bigg (and try to get away with by saying “it can't be proved†(*wink wink*)).

 

What Barious said:

 

I don't want to revive the topic or make any strain, but I've just noticed this:

 

(berelinde)

G3 modders have generally stayed out of the discussion once the original poster's questions were answered, and have certainly not indulged in any of the swearing. Those were folks from elsewhere. Some of them were even from here!

A lie again! None of the posts of swearing style imply there that their authors are modders/members of BWL. It can't be proved, and the author of the disgusting provoking against Gabrielle (if I remember correctly -- I don't care to check that thread, of course) was apparently TheBigg under a different name (a Spambot post contained "special for theBigg" at the end). Nonetheless, even this can't be proved (that it was TheBigg), but it's indifferent.

 

It isn't our problem that if certain G3 and PPG modders don't distance themselves from troublemaker morons and swearing trolls, then some people will believe they support such an attitude -- no matter how they wash their hands and keep saying "I stayed out of it". Topic closed.

 

The actual quote by Spambot is at the bottom of page 7 of this thread:

 

And do spell my name right next time

Why should I? Read your own posts, bitch, Baronius != Baron

P.S. IA rocks! (of course, i'm not real - it's special for Bigg)

Maybe it's just me, but I don't get from this that Spambot is claiming to be the bigg. If anything, I thought Spambot was taking a "special" shot at the bigg by pretending to be an "unreal" poster who likes IA. (But then again, I could be wrong.)

 

But the best part is that Baronious then closes the topic again so as to cut off any possibility of being corrected in that thread.

 

Why am I reminded of Brave Sir Robin (who bravely ran away)?

 

OK, so I realize this is pretty much a trolling post, but hey, that's why CamDawg created the thread in the first place, right?

[CamDawg]

OK, so I realize this is pretty much a trolling post, but hey, that's why CamDawg created the thread in the first place, right?

Not really, no.

 

I do have access to IP addresses and all of our guest attendees appear to be who they say they were--I'm pretty ruthless about outing registered folks posting as alts or guests since I think it's cowardice. (This doesn't rule out folks using proxies, of course.)

 

edit: I should point out that I only check out trolling guests, since most people abuse alts/guests to post inflammatory remarks. The only one I checked in this thread was temujin. 'Spambot' appears to be Garza.

[jastey]

I understood the reference about the Bigg the same way.

 

To the rest: No comment. I made my comments elsewhere.

[CamDawg]

This thread is not entitled "I'm responding to something on another forum".

[Guest temujin]

But the best part is that Baronious then closes the topic again so as to cut off any possibility of being corrected in that thread.

 

How pathetic. Instead of coming here and taking his e-beating like a man, "Brave Sir Robin" (good one ) tucked tail and ran back to BWL so he could start barking from a safe distance. Whats even worse, like you said, he closes the topic before anyone gets a chance to reply just so he could get the last word.

 

Now that he's been caught, I expect him to write another ridiculously long anti-eulogy explaining his actions (which, by the way, might include other things like the g3 fixpack/modders/its forum administration/anyone that is against BWL/etc) to save face. This guy kills me.

[Gabrielle]

OK, so I realize this is pretty much a trolling post, but hey, that's why CamDawg created the thread in the first place, right?

Not really, no.

 

I do have access to IP addresses and all of our guest attendees appear to be who they say they were--I'm pretty ruthless about outing registered folks posting as alts or guests since I think it's cowardice. (This doesn't rule out folks using proxies, of course.)

 

edit: I should point out that I only check out trolling guests, since most people abuse alts/guests to post inflammatory remarks. The only one I checked in this thread was temujin. 'Spambot' appears to be Garza.

A reason why guest posting should be disabled.

 

A smart "guest" can always find a way to alter their IP so you never know who they really are.

[Daulmakan]

A smart "guest" can always find a way to alter their IP so you never know who they really are.

Can't the same exact thing happen with a smart registered user? Registering takes what, 30 seconds? Surely someone bent on trolling/insulting can endure such a hindrance.

 

Cowards who misuse the Guest functionality are exposed through IP by the admin/mods and enjoy the full perks of forum shame, I don't think there's a need to change anything.

[Gabrielle]

A registered user can be controlled easier compared to a random guest.

[Daulmakan]

A registered user can be controlled easier compared to a random guest.

In which way? With the mail account? If so, not really.