Offtopic Anvil Discussion

[Icendoan]

But paranoia can be fun to provoke...

 

Icen

[SimDing0]

At the risk of dragging this out, I do think the idea that we're all sitting around thinking "Damn that Sikret and his hugely successful mod! Wouldn't it really show him if we modified it to make some of the components optional!" is pretty funny. To be honest, I think the guy with the unpronounceable username hit the nail on the head in observing that it's actually reflective of a keen player base rather than someone trying to be annoying.

[theacefes]

Hot pot of coffee! This thread *again*?

[Gabrielle]

Controversy! Hold the presses! Hold the presses! The awesomeness mod evar being tinkered with!

[devSin]

At the risk of dragging this out, I do think the idea that we're all sitting around thinking "Damn that Sikret and his hugely successful mod! Wouldn't it really show him if we modified it to make some of the components optional!" is pretty funny. To be honest, I think the guy with the unpronounceable username hit the nail on the head in observing that it's actually reflective of a keen player base rather than someone trying to be annoying.

It's interesting that if you push a user too far they'd take it on themselves to tailor something more to their liking. I'm not sure if it's just because IA is so unreasonable or if it's so popular that the guy was convinced he needed it even though he didn't like it anymore or what, but it seems to be an odd occurrence (there aren't strange variants of quest pack or tweaks or any-other-mod-ever-created floating around) that you'd spend time changing it and distributing those changes rather than dumping it in the trash (or going back to the version that you did like, in the case of this guy).

 

As implied, the whole "it must be one of my 'rivals'" thing is stupid, but it was a little weird.

[SimDing0]

I suppose so, but I think it could very well be because most other mods aren't "throw everything into one package" nightmares. We did get TDD-sin-TDD for people who wanted the kits. (Oh god.) Dunno.

[devSin]

I guess it makes sense if you really want the kits (does IA have anything else?) without the adamantium rats and the cow that casts Dragon's Breath; I just don't see the point, though, with the huge number of kits that are already reasonably (installable by component) available (vs. TDD and crap of the long past). (I'm sure he's a capable modder, but they can't be *that* good.)

 

I can't tell whether this says something good or bad, honestly. If people were distributing homebrew BG1UB, on the one hand, I would think that something in there was really gaining some fans, but it could also just be that it sucks so bad (or the component structure or whatever is so unreasonable) that these illicit copies are just filling demand for the one component deemed worthwhile.

[temujin]

It's interesting that if you push a user too far they'd take it on themselves to tailor something more to their liking. I'm not sure if it's just because IA is so unreasonable or if it's so popular that the guy was convinced he needed it even though he didn't like it anymore or what, but it seems to be an odd occurrence (there aren't strange variants of quest pack or tweaks or any-other-mod-ever-created floating around) that you'd spend time changing it and distributing those changes rather than dumping it in the trash (or going back to the version that you did like, in the case of this guy).

 

As implied, the whole "it must be one of my 'rivals'" thing is stupid, but it was a little weird.

It may seem weird, but it's not the first time. I remember now people were discussing about forcefully redesigning IA to make it compatible with other mods (apparently just to "teach" Sikret how a mod needs to be done ).

 

Whoeever this guy is, assuming he is legit and not Baronius himself just trying to draw attention to himself as usual, must've apparently followed the same thought process and did it, despite sikret and baronus' insistence about why it can't be done because of interrelations / dependencies / blah blah blah...

 

Then again, he picked a stupid, worthless mod to prove his point.

[devSin]

That was ages ago when the Sikret was first whispered in our ears. Nobody was actually seriously contemplating wasting time reworking it (that I recall). Cam even tried to help back then but was eventually rebuffed and then drowned in a never-ending stream of increasingly verbose "explanations" of an opinion that everybody already understands but can't seem to elucidate that they simply disagree (not by any failing on their part, of course).

[temujin]

True, that was about two years back, but still, that doesn't mean it wouldn't trigger the same reaction today.

 

Anyway, I'm in no way defending this guy. Whoever he is, fuck him for all I care.

[berelinde]

The funny thing is that IA Lite might actually be fun. I played and enjoyed IA v2. It's only later that things got ugly.

[cmorgan]

Erm... folks... thought this was an April Fools thing, but it isn't...

 

I can't believe I am saying this, because I strongly believe that folks should be allowed to do what they want with content... plus, my efforts at direct and civil conversation on BWL have been less than successful. But we have had all three of the SHS/PPG/G3 group site admins come down together and directly on unauthorized mirrors dealing with the SHS Mega installs databasing. On the basis of both site support of active mods and representation of author choice.

 

I would like to point out that this is not just an unauthorized mirror, it is a non-credited, unauthorized recomposite of an active mod whose author is clear in his expectations of the mod and his sovereignty.

 

Looking at the tp2, it is an unskilled hack job by someone with less ability even than me - but it is a functioning distribution of a modder who has explicitly indicated his ownership, to the point of dictating what mods will be supported and what mods will be "at your own risk and don't come and post on my boards if you use them". It looks like it installs, and it contains kits, items, and store patching taken directly without source attribution. None of these things are 'canon' BioWare, like Xan or Kivan or Aerie NPCs or even Carsomyr - these are original content added to the game, created by the modder.

 

I dunno. The part of me that says JCompton is right about Crossmod and we should change the permission systems to allow new content says "fine - let BWL handle it. The marketplace rules."

 

The part of me that as an SHS staffer needed to respond directly to PPG requests for unauthorized mirrors to be removed from tools linked to SHS sites says "hey - we should all say something."

 

The part of me that is a Gibberling says "why are we discussing any of this on G3, when it is about a posted link of a BWL mod from a third party on on a BioWare board, and has no relevance to the actual IAv5 mod or its use, playablilty, compatibility, or anything remotely conected to the original topic?"

[DavidW]

I think there's a fine distinction to note here (and, as I noted in another discussion, it's my job to draw fine distinctions). The distinction is between modding someone else's content and mirroring (all or part of) someone else's content.

 

Advocates of the "modding mods is fine" viewpoint like jcompton and (basically) me should be fine with a mod that installs after IA and selectively modifies its content. That doesn't mean they should be okay with a mod that just contains some of IA's content.

 

If this guy had distributed his mod with the entire mod folder empty, and added

 

REQUIRE_PREDICATE FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~s!amul01.itm~ "This mod requires the original Improved Anvil (v5) to be installed"

UNINSTALL "setup-IA.tp2" "0"

COPY ~IA~ ~vagrant~

 

at the top of his TP2, I think it would be quite a different case.

 

(By analogy, I didn't feel any need to ask permission to modify Ascension's AI in SCSII; I did ask permission to borrow Tactics' Improved Bodhi.)

[devSin]

I think there's a fine distinction to note here (and, as I noted in another discussion, it's my job to draw fine distinctions). The distinction is between modding someone else's content and mirroring (all or part of) someone else's content.

I can't actually tell what you're saying, so I'm responding like you're saying what I want you to say in order to say what I want: Indeed. I actually thought it was particularly bad form.

 

I'm not overly sensitive in this case, however, because there's not really a good way to do something like this. If you're frustrated with a mod and want to make changes to increase your enjoyment and realize that others might be in the same situation, what exactly are you supposed to do (I do *not* favor an "every player for themselves" mentality)? Is the players' only recourse here to learn WeiDU or suck it up and play only that which somebody with more time or inclination decides to provide you? "If you don't like my <IE mod type>, then go play something else," is complete bullshit when you like some of the stuff (and can't reasonably find it anywhere else) but will not suffer that other crap I think is the coolest swank to ever grace the game and you'd be a fool to ever want to play without.

 

As for true mirroring, I gather the only problem is that it's another bit of data to add to the equation: User X comes for support, and now you have to ask not only the usuals but also where they got it from (whereas, if only "official" mirrors exist, you don't have to ask, because everyone is guaranteed to have the same base copy of that version). It usually takes the form of a boring pissing match, but that's what the argument always amounts to as far as I could ever tell.

[temujin]

http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?...amp;st=20

 

Baronius,

 

I tried to stay out of this nonsense but it seems everytime your menstrual cycle begins you get desperate and pull me right back into this shit. No worries. I do occasionally enjoy putting you in your place.

 

Many people consider the online world as a playground where they can speak what they wish, without responsibility. Because they don't have to be afraid of the consequences. For example, 80% of those trolls who spread lies about Improved Anvil (no, not those who criticize it -- those who spread lies) would be cowardly and wouldn't dare to say the same things to Sikret's face in the reality. They hide behind their online disguise (they even enjoy it), and when needed, they even pretend to be nice and kind to get some negligible advantage on a virtual website or forum.

 

 

First of all, tough guy, the only coward here is you, because everytime you get owned outside BWL, you run back to your forum with your tail tucked inside your vagina where you hide behind your admin powers and delete posts and ban at will. You lock threads making sure ONLY YOU OR SIKRET get the last word, or quietly delete entire threads and sweep them under the rug as if nothing ever happened. Not to mention these silent provoking jabs you occasionally throw just to stir shit up. Bitch move, János Kádár.

 

Second, there isn't a damn thing neither you or Sikret can do whether I say it here online or in person. Feel free to meet me and I'll be happy to dedicate a verses to both of you jokers in person.

 

Third, how exactly am I "pretending to be nice?" I am NOT here to make friends. I rarely even post, and I'm pretty sure I've pissed off several here and at PPG, so that should be a clear sign, Lukács. At this point, I couldn't care less if I'm banned.

 

Instead of hiding behind your admin commands, let's see if you can manage to re-attach your nuts and find the courage to come down and post here in neutral grounds.

 

 

Sikret,

 

First of all, you sir, are THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITICAL cheater/cheeser in history. You claim to be fighting and preventing cheese. Yet you insist on using the spell "Wish" and even go far as to say it's one of your favourite spells. Relying on Wish means you're only relying on luck. It is NOT something a true "tactician" (especially a man of your "intellect" ) would be proud of using. If you were truly serious about eliminating cheese, you would've removed this spell in the first place. And let's not forget your infamous "tactical, step-by-step retreat" quote.

 

Second, a more serious issue. I find it worrying that A GROWN MAN would insist on telling other grown men to play a role-playing game "honourably". LOL WTF!!! What kind of nonsense is that. Are you putting on some kind of act?

 

The very fact that people download and genuinely enjoy a mod alone should make its author happy. Constantly reminding others to 'play honourably' is truly sad. It shows your real life is so intertwined with a computer game that you can't really differentiate the two.

 

Moreover, you repeatedly claim his game is full of bugs, yet refuse to acknowledge that it's your mod that is causing the bugs when played in a certain way. tsk.. tsk... tsk...

 

 

 

To Saros:

 

Why do you still continue on playing the mod especially after being repeatedly humiliated like that? Clearly, all those haters will continue to call you a cheat (yet mysteriously like to follow your thread for some reason ). It's obvious their egos are shattered that you've been able to do so much with ONE character which they couldn't do with six. So they continue to live in denial. If you're expecting some sort of comeuppance or recognition from them, I hate to break it to you, it ain't gonna happen.