Revised Potions

[InKal]

Example:

Minsc wants to fight Firkraag, he buffs with Fire Resistance potion. Firk casts Confusion at him. Now he wants to avoid it by drinking Clarity. He does so, but Fire Res potion effects are gone as he drinks it.

Too crazy? It can be fine-tuned...

No, only potions with the same or similar effect should not stack in my opinion.

 

Dunno if this is even possible in BG/BG2/EE:

1) Minor Potion of Fire Res. (20%) 2) Potion of Fire Res. (40-50%) 3) Strong Potion of Fire Res. (70-80%) - very rare, strongest dragons loot

and if you have item on your char like Ring of Fire Res. then after drinking a potion ONLY the strongest effect is active. And only strong potions should be undispellable/not-dispellable by remove magic but imo should be affected by lower resistance!

 

well...now imagine:

 

Minsc with Ring of Fire Res. is fighting Firky. He has Potion of Fire res. and Strong Potion of Fire Res. (Yoshi just looted it from Firk this morning after breakfast). Firk is not stupid and he cast lower fire res. on Minsc. Minsc is not stupid also and he drinks Potion of Fire Res. Oh, you ! Firky cast Lower Fire Res. again. Now Minsc drinks Strong Potion of Fire Res. because maybe he's not stupid but not so smart either. Now the fundamental question is: is this even working properly? Don't ask me.

[Demivrgvs]

Strange/Murky Potions

Anything being done with them, the murky potions of healing, speed, and antidote?

Not much, I've just renamed them, tweaked the description a bit and made them work via spl as all potions within IR.

What about every time you drink a murky potion you have a variable chance of outcome:

50% good effect
25% nothing
25% bad effect

So for example, a murky healing potion would heal, do nothing, or harm. Speed would haste, nothing, or slow. Antidote would cure, nothing, or poison. ...

That's a good idea, and I agree that 100% bad effect as it is now pretty much eliminates them from the game (same as vanilla cursed items). That being said, I fear this solution would still not encourage enough their use, same as when IR was using spell failure on armors instead of reduced casting speed.

 

What if we try something similar to IR's cursed items instead: always a positive effect but with a negative side effect as well.

 

Example of strange/murky potions could be:

- a Potion of Speed which grants "haste" but causes fatigue

- an Antidote/Healing Potion which cures poison or heals but causes a bit of nausea

- a Potion of Invulnerability which increases AC/saves but causes intoxication (not sure now how this effect work with the current engine)

 

Stacking potion effects

I'm not too much into preventing different types of potions from stacking unless they provide similar effects. We should balance them with duration and effect power imo.

 

On a side note, ages ago we were talking about adding a "1-2 sec pause" to drink a potion (Kreso also tested it with good results afaik - 1 sec is enough imo, 2 would probably make players annoyed) and I like it conceptually. Should I go for it?

 

Firk casts Confusion at him. Now he wants to avoid it by drinking Clarity.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't like the idea of drinking a potion to instantaneously counter a spell (how fast can you be to take a potion from your belt/bag and drink it before the spell affects you?). If there's a consensus on the above 1 sec pause we could use such excuse to delay the potion spl too by 1 sec, making it almost impossible to use potions as "counterspells".

[Jarno Mikkola]

On a side note, ages ago we were talking about adding a "1-2 sec pause" to drink a potion (Kreso also tested it with good results afaik - 1 sec is enough imo, 2 would probably make players annoyed) and I like it conceptually. Should I go for it?

If the pause between won't effect the fact that the potions effect is applied, even if non fatal damage is taken, then I am for the delay, with a 3 seconds(aka 1/2 round). But that's me.

The potion spells, they are all marked as non arcane, correct ?

[subtledoctor]

What if we try something similar to IR's cursed items instead: always a positive effect but with a negative side effect as well.

I LOVE this idea.

 

On a side note, ages ago we were talking about adding a "1-2 sec pause" to drink a potion (Kreso also tested it with good results afaik - 1 sec is enough imo, 2 would probably make players annoyed) and I like it conceptually. Should I go for it?

I LOVE this idea.

[kreso]

 

Firk casts Confusion at him. Now he wants to avoid it by drinking Clarity.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't like the idea of drinking a potion to instantaneously counter a spell (how fast can you be to take a potion from your belt/bag and drink it before the spell affects you?). If there's a consensus on the above 1 sec pause we could use such excuse to delay the potion spl too by 1 sec, making it almost impossible to use potions as "counterspells".

To chip in on lovin'; I love this one. Even better, combine "pause" after (simulates drinking) and "delay" before (simulates opening the bottle).

[Jarno Mikkola]

To chip in on lovin'; I love this one. Even better, combine "pause" after (simulates drinking) and "delay" before (simulates opening the bottle).

I think one form of delay/pause is enough. But of course if Demi wishes to build option to choose, I won't mind. But how likely is that.

[Demivrgvs]

If the pause between won't effect the fact that the potions effect is applied, even if non fatal damage is taken, then I am for the delay, with a 3 seconds(aka 1/2 round). But that's me.

The potion spells, they are all marked as non arcane, correct ?

All potion's spl are innate and flagged to ignore dead/wild magic zones. Afaik they are not interruptable as well.

 

To chip in on lovin'; I love this one. Even better, combine "pause" after (simulates drinking) and "delay" before (simulates opening the bottle).

Mmm...the delay before the pause might look odd with nothing happening for 1 sec after clicking on the potion. Also, 2 separate forms of delay would be too much for many players (see Jarno already). It's best to "hide" the delay during the pause itself imo.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Good.

Mmm...the delay before the pause might look odd with nothing happening for 1 sec after clicking on the potion. Also, 2 separate forms of delay would be too much for many players (see Jarno already). It's best to "hide" the delay during the pause itself imo.

... so I take it that kreso tested this and the (SCS) AI could handle the small pause ? You might wish to go and test what the BP AI also behaved fine with it too. I am just a bit worried about it freaking out.

I don't use many potions in my games anyways.

[Salk]

My vote is for one single delay: 1 sec after drinking the potion. It's enough.

 

I am uncertain about the "bad" potions instead. In my Cursed Items Revision mod I simply reinstated the bam used by the good potions. It didn't make any sense in fact that they looked different. Only the description text would hint at the fact that they are spoiled.

[kreso]

You might wish to go and test what the BP AI also behaved fine with it too. I am just a bit worried about it freaking out.

I don't use many potions in my games anyways.

Last time I checked, BP AI freaks out on a regular basis; potions or not....

Jokes aside, it will work fine with any AI. It's not like AI is an actual "artificial intelligence" or anything. They'll be paused for one second and then resume their scripted actions, to which ever fate it will lead them.

[Gay Lord]

 

 

What if we try something similar to IR's cursed items instead: always a positive effect but with a negative side effect as well.

 

You're the modder; I like the idea of a random outcome, myself. If you prefer having always good but with a negative, I'd recommend the negative be enough to make the player think twice. If the penalty is too mild, then all you've done is turn murky potions into normal potions.

 

If you did something like what Salk said and gave murky potions normal bams (how would you deal with the issue of them not stacking with normal potiions?) then you're right back to potions occasionally having a bad effect, which would seem to be random, which is my suggestion.

 

As for potion delay, I like the idea. I agree they should never be used as spell or magic-counters... they should have to be used BEFORE a situation occurs, or to deal with the aftermath (antidote, heal). I favor effect delay over PC paralysis. Characters should be able to drink on the run, be able to move about. Moving is far more important than drinking a potion. Let PCs drink, but give a few seconds for the effect to kick in.

[geg_Ma3gau]

What if the potions are actually dispellable? However with a bonus to caster level. Maybe +5 caster level? I can see some of their effects are extremely good compared to the spells and they dont have the casting time so no interruption. They are extremely good thats for sure.

[Fiann of the Silver Hand]

Re: delayed potion effect as a deterrent in use as a counterspell.

 

There are many actions that are not precisely represented by the game, whether it's instantly picking a lock or sheathing one weapon to unsheathe another. Correcting for "realism" in one or only a few instances makes the other examples stand out more, makes the user experience inconsistent, and risks destroying immersion. Carefully weigh this against the tiny benefit of hindering a nearly inconsequential exploit that already relies heavily on metagaming to be of use.

[Grammarsalad]

Is the idea of making buffing potions non-stackable too crazy? How much can one drink before collapsing? Potions are probably the single hardest thing to balance in this game, both for their stacking effects and (within IR) their non-dispellability.

I used to make them dispellable for my game, but they end up being overly nerfed for anybody not having the SI:Abj/Dispel Screen protection.

Hence, I made a little code that does the following:

1) keep all potion effects as they are (non-dispellable)

2) if you drink any potion aside from healing and Oil of Speed (needed to counter slow) while being under effect of one, you loose the benefits of the one you had.

 

Example:

Minsc wants to fight Firkraag, he buffs with Fire Resistance potion. Firk casts Confusion at him. Now he wants to avoid it by drinking Clarity. He does so, but Fire Res potion effects are gone as he drinks it.

Too crazy? It can be fine-tuned...

I like this idea