Revised Potions

[Guest deducter]

I have recently installed the beta of potions rev v2, and I find it quite good, although there are still a few potions unchanged (e.g. wisdom, strength, dexterity, fortitude). I have some suggestions of potions that you could potentially use to replace the ones still unchanged, and you can see fit to change what you want.

 

I know some of these potions have already been suggested (luck, speech, berserking), but I find it useful to include some descriptions on how I think they would work. All numerical values are of course subject to your approval, and I sometimes give a cost in as a range of values.

 

Potions I believe fit the philosophy of IR:

 

Potion of Fortitude

An adventurer’s road is fraught with danger. He might be beset by a horde of orcs or an angry mage blasting fireballs and magic missiles, and sometimes the margin between life and death is thin indeed. Fortunately, there exists this potion to even the odds. Upon imbibing this potion, the user toughens up somewhat and is able to survive an extra blow or two from his opponents. That could make all the difference in a tight spot.

 

Effect: +15-20 hp.

Duration: 5 turns.

Cost: 250-350 gp.

Usable by: All.

 

Notes: Think of this potion as a “buffing†potion that gives hp in between that of a potion of extra healing and a normal potion of healing. This can be quite useful in some tough fights, where having an extra 20 hp on your fighter can save him from death, or having 20 extra hp on your mage allows him to survive a horrid wilting. The cost makes it so that you would not go about chugging one of these on every char prior to every fight.

 

Potion of Luck

Upon imbibing this potion, the user will become unusually lucky. The affected character receives a 5% or +1 bonus to all of his actions. This includes saving throws, to hit chances, damage rolls, thieving skills, etc. Naturally the use of this potion during a game of chance is considered cheating in almost all places in the Realms. Does not stack with the second level arcane spell Luck.

 

Effect: Per the level 2 arcane spell Luck.

Duration: 5 turns or 8 hours

Cost: 150gp (if 5 turns) 300 gp (if 8 hours)

Usable by: All.

 

Notes: A luck potion is the mainstay of many fantasy worlds. Depending on how you want to do this potion, the 8 hour duration potion could be quite a nice boost for a long dungeon crawl, especially for thieves.

 

Potion of Steady Hands

Upon imbibing this potion, the user’s hand-eye coordination increases markedly. As a result, his attacks with missile weapons become much more effective, allowing him to hit targets he might have otherwise missed and inflict more damage with each attack.

 

Effect: Missile weapons +2 thaco, +3 damage

Duration: 5 turns

Cost: 350-500gp

Usable by: All.

 

Notes: There is an entire line of strength potions to boost the effectiveness of melee fighters, but I find it strange that there are none for an archer. This potion would also be quite useful for a priest or a thief who uses a missile weapon.

 

Potion of See Invisibility

Many a warrior has been frustrated by a mage or thief who disappears from sight with a simple invisibility spell or potion. If he does not have the aid of a friendly mage or priest, there is little he can do to his opponent. Fortunately, there exists an alchemical concoction that solves this problem. Upon imbibing this potion, the user gains the ability to see through an invisibility spell for 5 rounds. This potion does not allow the user to see through “hide in shadows†and does not dispel illusions.

 

Effect: As per the second level arcane spell Detect Invisibility.

Duration: 5 rounds.

Cost: 350-500 gp

Usable by: All.

Notes: Many opponents in SCSII love to use invisibility. If I run out of detect invisibility spells against a group of thieves or a mage or two, I can be in serious trouble. Opponents in SCSII could also benefit from this potion (If DavidW programs subsequent editions to take advantage of potion reviews). Such a potion, of course, is easily countered by Non-Detection or a powerful spell like Mislead, so you still need a mage/priest against the more powerful opponents. The high cost of this potion makes it more of something you carry around as a contingency, rather than something to chug in every fight.

 

I realize you have a potion of sharp eyes that does something similar, with a 50% chance of detect invisibility, but I think that potion has too low of a cost. As an alternative, I recommend raising the cost of that potion in lieu of implanting this potion.

 

Potion of Dispelling

Sooner or later, an adventurer is sure to come across harmful magic or malicious curses. If he is still in control of his body, he can remove those effects by quaffing this potion. The user’s body will be purged of all magical effects, both harmful and beneficial, so the user had best be careful not to lose too many beneficial spells before using this potion.

 

Effects: A guaranteed dispel magic on the user, but will dispel both harmful and beneficial effects of all kinds. This potion can also remove most curses. Does not work on poisons or diseases.

Duration: Instant.

Usable by: All.

Cost: 200 gp.

 

Notes: Clearly a very situational potion. One can argue that such a potion is too good for the player, for he can control exactly which character he wants dispelled, and thus selectively remove only harmful effects. While such a concern is legitimate, I think this potion is more limited than it seems, for it is useless on a character who is already knocked out magically (e.g. hold, sleep, charm etc). Such a potion is more useful for removing lingering effects such as acid arrow, slow, doom, malison, curses etc. (especially when these maledictions are stacked).

 

Potion of Speech

One of the most effective ways to neutralize a spell caster is to silence them, magically or otherwise. This potion counters the effect and silence and allows the user to regain the ability to speak once more. However, it does not protect the user from further silences.

 

Effect: Removes silence, allowing the user to speak again.

Duration: Instant.

Usable by: All (although only spell casters would find it useful).

Cost: 200 gp.

 

Notes: If mages get silenced, they can vocalize. If priests or druids get silenced, there is no counter, which I find stupid. This potion is of course still highly situational, but gives priest a way to overcome silence. This potion is not the same as the vocalize spell, because it does not protect against silence, just removes it. Even a mage can find it useful if he neglected to memorize a vocalize spell.

 

Potion of Concentration

Many mages have stayed up into the wee hours of the night studying their spell books and transcribing in new spells. Given the difficulty of their craft and the limited intelligence of mortals, mages who are on the road or facing a time crunch often fail in learning new spells. This potion gives the user a temporary superhuman ability to focus his mind and study intensely. For the next hour, the user is guaranteed to transcribe magical scrolls into his spell book. This potion is a favorite of well-to-do students of wizard schools right before exam time.

 

Effects: 100% chance of learning arcane spells; can learn an unlimited number of spells for every spell level.

Duration: 5 turns.

Cost: 750gp.

Usable by: Mages.

Notes: Replaces potion of genius, but without the intellect/lore bonus. Potions of genius are necessarily for mages to guarantee spell learning and scribing an unlimited amount of spells per level without cheating, and thus are necessary. Its cost reflects the necessity of using 2 potions of genius for most mages/npcs to guarantee spell learning. This is more of a convenience change. Not sure though if this potion can be coded. If not, potions of genius need to remain in the game.

 

 

Potions out of a brainstorming session, but not necessarily a good idea.

 

Potion of Focused Rage

Many a warrior knows that if properly harnessed and controlled, anger can sharpen the reflexes and make him a more effective fighter. Upon imbibing this potion, the user can channel his rage into a devastating physical attack. The user must act quickly however, or risk losing focus.

 

Effect: Next hit with a melee or missile weapon is an automatic critical hit.

Duration: 2 rounds, until the next attack is made.

Cost: 100-200 gp.

Usable by: All.

 

Notes: This potion can be quite useful in a multitude of situations, whether it’s a near death opponent that you want to guarantee its death, or something you can use for a quick surprise attack (thief + backstab). Of course, there is some concern about the overpoweredness of such a potion even if it is just one hit (e.g. kensai’s ki + this potion, a thief’s assassination ability + this potion, an assassin’s 7x backstab + this potion). Also, I don’t have any coding experience, and I’m not sure if you can actually code something like this.

 

Potion of Uncontrolled Rage

This is a very dangerous concoction, used only by desperate or insane warriors. Upon imbibing this potion, the user becomes a juggernaut of destruction, but loses complete control of himself. His bloodlust is such that he ignores mind-affecting magic, can shrug off otherwise mortal blows or spells, and ignores most attempts to physically stop him. He has a reckless disregard for his own safety and completely ignores common sense in avoiding offensive attacks, both physical and magical. He will indiscriminately attack friend and foe alike. After the effects of this potion wear off, the user will be winded (as per what happens to a barbarian after he enrages).

 

Effects: +20% hp, +6 damage, +4 hit, +1 attack per round, -1 weapon speed factor, +5% chance for a critical hit, immunity to stun, paralysis, web, hold, charm, sleep, slow, command, and other similar abilities, immunity to death magic, +4 AC, +4 saves. The character cannot be controlled, and will attack friend and foe alike.

Duration: 5 rounds-1 turn.

Cost: 1000gp.

Usable by: Warriors, rangers, barbarians.

 

Notes: The bonuses are rightly insane, and the effects should stack with other potions like speed, strength, etc., and cannot be dispelled. Of course, even though the warrior is now incredibly powerful, he will attack EVERYTHING in sight. This potion is considerably more powerful than barbarian rage or berserk, but the (significant) downside is that the player can no longer control the character. I am not sure a veteran tactical player would ever use this potion. However, if DavidW incorporates potion revisions into his script, giving a few AI opponents this potion could be incredibly devastating.

 

Other Notes:

In my current, albeit very early, playthrough of BG2, I found that there is a lack of potions of extra healing in various temples (e.g. Helm in Bridge District, Illmater in Waukeen’s Promenade, Oghma’s in Bridge District) and vendors (Mrs. Cragmoon in the Bridge District does not sell any, and Ribald only sells a few). While these potions certainly aren’t something the average citizen walks up and buys, you would expect that there would be plenty (e.g. 5-10 per temple, maybe 10-15 for adventuring shop) in places that cater to adventurers. Considering the frequency I find potions on enemies using SCSII, it would suggest that potions are quite common for those rich enough to afford them. I also recommend giving more potions of all kinds to places where adventurers would go, because so far the selection is quite limited in all shops (Mrs. Cragmoon, Roger the Fence, Ribald, Trademeet, Drow Merchant, etc.)

[Ardanis]

Potions of wisdom, strength, dexterity, fortitude

I think they can remain tied to stats as they are now, though extra 1-2 bonus as it was suggested in this thread would be better.

 

I'd instead do something about Giant Strength potions, as there're six of them and all basically are the same thing. But iirc we haven't found a good solution.

 

In my current, albeit very early, playthrough of BG2, I found that there is a lack of potions of extra healing in various temples (e.g. Helm in Bridge District, Illmater in Waukeen’s Promenade, Oghma’s in Bridge District) and vendors (Mrs. Cragmoon in the Bridge District does not sell any, and Ribald only sells a few). While these potions certainly aren’t something the average citizen walks up and buys, you would expect that there would be plenty (e.g. 5-10 per temple, maybe 10-15 for adventuring shop) in places that cater to adventurers. Considering the frequency I find potions on enemies using SCSII, it would suggest that potions are quite common for those rich enough to afford them. I also recommend giving more potions of all kinds to places where adventurers would go, because so far the selection is quite limited in all shops (Mrs. Cragmoon, Roger the Fence, Ribald, Trademeet, Drow Merchant, etc.)

I did just about the same for Revised Stores. Major alchemist store and two temples of Ilmater have lots of healing, and other potion shops and temples, as well as some random vendors, in total offer the amount close to those three.

 

Since lesser potions of Healing are very cheap now, I think they can serve well as a source of healing between battles, saving more rare Extra Healing for dangerous times when you can't afford to sit for a turn and drink one tiny bottle after another.

[Dakk]

What is the - current - solution on stat-potions for that matter? I don't recall if we/Demi settled on setting a stat to a fixed number or increasing it a set amount. I seriously support the latter FWIW.

[Demivrgvs]

Potion of Strength/Agility/Fortitude/Genius/Insight

What is the - current - solution on stat-potions for that matter? I don't recall if we/Demi settled on setting a stat to a fixed number or increasing it a set amount. I seriously support the latter FWIW.

If I'm not wrong most players support the incremental bonus over the set stat to a fixed value, and in theory I'm for it too. A plain +3-4 bonus is not a good solution though, because in some cases it's too powerful (+4 STR) in others is really too random (+4 CON) and in others is almost completely useless (+4 WIS).

 

As other players have suggested a better solution is a moderate stat boost and secondary bonuses, but I personally wouldn't mind to be more radical in some cases and simply replace them. For example a Vocalize Potion could replace Potion of Insight or Potion of Genius, and a Potion of Restoration could replace Potion of Mind Focusing.

 

 

Potion of Fortitude

Effect: +15-20 hp.

Duration: 5 turns.

Cost: 250-350 gp.

I do agree with this solution, because CON bonus in this game works really bad for various reasons:

- most classes don't get hp bonuses for CON higher than 16

- characters with low CON (e.g. Aerie, Viconia) would get NOTHING from a +4 CON

- characters with CON 14 would benefit TWICE as much as characters with CON 18

- ...

Long story short, blame 2nd edition rules for stats which are pretty lame.

 

 

Potion of Luck

Effect: Per the level 2 arcane spell Luck.

Duration: 5 turns or 8 hours

Cost: 150gp (if 5 turns) 300 gp (if 8 hours)

Well, it combines a lot of different potions into a sort of "jack of all trades and master of nones". I have nothing against it, but which potion should it replace? Potion of Agility would seem the "best candidate".

 

Potion of Steady Hands

Effect: Missile weapons +2 thaco, +3 damage

Duration: 5 turns

Cost: 350-500gp

Potion of Heroism's +2 hit/dmg work on ranged weapons too.

 

 

Potion of See Invisibility

Effect: As per the second level arcane spell Detect Invisibility.

Duration: 5 rounds.

Cost: 350-500 gp

Potion of Sharp Eyes is there for the very same purpose, and the 50% chance was put for a balance reason. I do fear a 100% detect invisibility would seriously ruin some encounters (bandits, shaadow thieves, ...) but if time proves me wrong and most players will ask for a 100% chance I'd improve PoSE instead of adding another potion which does the very same thing.

 

 

Potion of Dispelling

Effects: A guaranteed dispel magic on the user

Duration: Instant.

Cost: 200 gp.

Potion of Magic Blocking already does this.

 

 

Potion of Speech

Effect: Removes silence, allowing the user to speak again.

Duration: Instant.

Cost: 200 gp.

Yep, the "priest can't deal with silence" thing is a good point. I'm all for it if most of you don't mind removing some of the stat-enhancing potions.

 

 

Potion of Concentration

Effects: 100% chance of learning arcane spells; can learn an unlimited number of spells for every spell level.

Duration: 5 turns.

Cost: 750gp.

Not doable, thus +4 INT is the best way to achieve that. If you ask me the whole "drink a potion and you're a genius" isn't so great, and I have a "mixed" feeling regarding the 100% chance of learning arcane spells thing. If you want it why don't you simply set the difficulty slider to have it, or install Tweak Pack component which grants it?

 

 

Potion of Focused Rage

Effect: Next hit with a melee or missile weapon is an automatic critical hit.

Duration: 2 rounds, until the next attack is made.

Cost: 100-200 gp.

Well, "rage" doesn't suggest "critical hit" to me, and I'm not particularly in love with the concept... Anyway, which potion would it replace?

 

 

Potion of Uncontrolled Rage

Effects: +20% hp, +6 damage, +4 hit, +1 attack per round, -1 weapon speed factor, +5% chance for a critical hit, immunity to stun, paralysis, web, hold, charm, sleep, slow, command, and other similar abilities, immunity to death magic, +4 AC, +4 saves. The character cannot be controlled, and will attack friend and foe alike.

Duration: 5 rounds-1 turn.

Cost: 1000gp.

Usable by: Warriors, rangers, barbarians.

I'm not really in favor of uber-powerful potions. A more balanced "rage" potion (e.g. +2 to hit/dmg, +2 to save vs spells, -2 penalty to AC) may be not so bad (e.g. it could make Potion of Strength slightly more unique), but at the same time Potion of Heroism does almost the same, and in a more "user-friendly" way.

 

Potion allocations

I'll let Ardanis handle this discussion as we always end up thinking and saying the same things. I've taken a look at his work and most "stores" seem fine to me, but I won't be able to really "judge" it till I manage to play a game with it installed.

[Ardanis]

Potion of Strength/Agility/Fortitude/Genius/Insight

As other players have suggested a better solution is a moderate stat boost and secondary bonuses, but I personally wouldn't mind to be more radical in some cases and simply replace them. For example a Vocalize Potion could replace Potion of Insight or Potion of Genius, and a Potion of Restoration could replace Potion of Mind Focusing.

I hate six identical STR potions much more than some char unable to benefit from +4 CON/WIS.

If you want to replace potions then do it for Giant Strength. I'd say at least half of them can easily be removed, better 4, and it shouldn't take a big effort to adjust SCS scripting.

 

Strength - probably fine as it is, among other things it allows to carry greater weight. Otoh I might want to remove the weight movement penalty altogether.

 

Agility, Fortitude and Insight should grant appropriate save bonus. Additionally, ages ago I've written a 'mod' that lets monks to improve AC based on their wisdom. The thing needs to be remade from the scratch, but either way it offers a real benefit for having high WIS.

 

Genius - well, mindflayers, yes.

 

Mind Focusing - make it CHA, the only stat not in there yet. Useful for shopping.

[deducter]

My understanding is that there are currently quite a few potions that do the same thing (e.g. all the series of strength potions). I’m offering some suggestions for potions that could potentially replace them, at your discretion.

 

Potion of Eagle Eyes

Upon imbibing this potion, the user's eyesight sharpens markedly and he is able to focus on tiny details of objects far away. A secondary effect of this potion is to increase his hand-eye coordination. As a result, he has a greater chance of hitting a far away opponent's weak spot with a projectile. This potion is a favorite of marksmen.

 

Duration: 5 turns

Effect: +5% critical hit chance (missile weapons only)

Cost: 350-500 gp.

Not usable by: Cavalier, Monk, (classes without access to missile weapons).

 

Notes: I understand your point about heroism boosting ranged THAC0 + damage too, which is good. However, heroism stacks with the many, many strength potions available. Thus, melee fighters have in effect two buffs they can get, while ranged only get one. I just think ranged should get a unique combat potion just for them. What do you think about this idea?

 

Regarding potion of sharp eyes, I think you are ultimately right.

 

Regarding potion of dispelling, I was thinking of an additional, cheap potion to magic blocking, but I see your point, you are probably right.

 

The two rage potions were just random ideas, not very good ones I agree. HOWEVER, if you were to make it a potion of berserking, just adding a few pluses to damage, THAC0 etc is too repetitive.

 

I would probably do: Mind Focusing -> Speech

Strength -> Luck (you have an entire line of giant str potions usable by all, so why is the +18 str one even around?)

Dexterity -> Eagle Eyes (if you like this idea)

 

Other brainstorming ideas

 

Potion of Memory

This potent concoction is a combination of an energy drink and an herb that sharpens the user’s memory. Upon imbibing this potion, a spell caster will be able to recall into his memory two spells of the fifth level (divine or arcane) or lower. Additionally, he will have enough magical energy to cast them again.

 

Effect: As per the level 6 divine spell Wondrous Recall. Works for arcane spell casters too.

Cost: 350 gp-750 gp. (I really have no idea what the cost should be.)

Duration: Instant.

Used by: All, although only spell casters with expended spells will benefit.

 

Notes: I have never ever cast the spell Wondrous Recall, and I am not sure how many people actually use it (I doubt it’s many). However, this potion could actually be quite useful depending on the situation. It can be useful in battle, if you desparately need certain spells back, and it can be useful out of battle, if for instance you already cast two breaches but want more without resting, you can quaff this potion. You can further chain quaff these if you have tons of money and restore many level 5 or lower spells (but such an option is limited in battle, because in tight battles it is unlikely you can have your mage spend 3-5 rounds chugging potions).

 

I’d probably replace potion of wisdom with this.

 

Potion of Magic Shielding

 

Just using the potion to allow the user to make all saves is incredibly powerful and useful. This means that few crowd control and death magic will work on the user, and for instance you will always avoid a demilich’s soul trap (SCSII), take half damage from a dragon’s breath, etc. I recommend setting the duration to 5 rounds, and raising the price to 1000 gp.

 

In general, I do not like the +2-4 stats potions for BG2 (much like Demi), because the effect is highly dependent on what NPC (or PC) uses it. +CHA potion, for instance, would be used only for buying items, and every time sometime buys something he would use that, making it quite a terrible potion. A +Dex potion is pretty much just adding a few AC to certain chars, and maybe a bit of missile damage and some extra thieving skills, but it’s so dependent on who uses it. Many NPCs would get 0 benefit from using it. A potion of wisdom is currently used only for wishes. If there are suggestions to make +WIS grant saves again, or to lower AC on monks, or whatnot, it will likely still just be chain-quaffed for wishes regardless. And a character like Minsc can drink a +WIS potion, and still have no saves bonus.

[Shaitan]

Hi!

 

I got an installing error of iItem. I strongly suspect Revised potions may be the sole reason since it is the only new mod installed so far. I got a debug file if you want it. I don't know wether igi still maintains iItems, thus this repport.

 

Cheers

[Demivrgvs]

I got an installing error of iItem. I strongly suspect Revised potions may be the sole reason since it is the only new mod installed so far. I got a debug file if you want it. I don't know wether igi still maintains iItems, thus this repport.

Mmm, my first guess is that iItem is trying to patch some potion for some reason and fails because IR's potions are coded in a completely different way (they all work vis .spl files). Mike is probably more skilled than me to track down these issues, but I can take a look at it if you want to send me (or attach here) the dubug file.

[Shaitan]

I decided to drop iitems as it is somewhat like to cheat

[Mike1072]

I got an installing error of iItem. I strongly suspect Revised potions may be the sole reason since it is the only new mod installed so far. I got a debug file if you want it. I don't know wether igi still maintains iItems, thus this repport.

I would definitely post over in the mod's forums. I suspect igi is still maintaining it.

 

As far as compatibility with Revised Potions goes, I did not encounter any errors when installing the two mods together. Neither could I see anything in iiItem's coding that could cause a compatibility issue - it doesn't touch vanilla items.

[Shaitan]

Well that was my best guess.

 

BTW Revised Potions really is promising.

[SixOfSpades]

Stat-effecting Potions

You touched on this in the first page of the thread, but I'd just like it confirmed: Is it true that if a potion raises a basic stat by a certain amount (say, +3 to DEX), then that potion is non-stackable with itself? As in, you could drink a Potion of Genius & a Potion of Mind Focusing and get the combined +7 to INT, but you couldn't drink 2 bottles of either single type?

[Demivrgvs]

Stat-effecting Potions

You touched on this in the first page of the thread, but I'd just like it confirmed: Is it true that if a potion raises a basic stat by a certain amount (say, +3 to DEX), then that potion is non-stackable with itself? As in, you could drink a Potion of Genius & a Potion of Mind Focusing and get the combined +7 to INT, but you couldn't drink 2 bottles of either single type?

Yep, I can easily do that sort of things because all potions (even these ones though their effects was unchanged for the beta you can download in this topic) now work via .spl files. One of the many advantages of doing this is that a simple "protection from spell" opcode can make such potions not stack with themselves, other potions, and even other spells or spell-like abilities if necessary.

[SixOfSpades]

Stat-effecting Potions

Yep

Good. I'm currently working on a tweak that alters the effects of one's basic stats, and having (certain) stackable potions would lead to characters being extremely overpowered. Come to think of it, I have so many thoughts/questions about stacking that I'll just start a new thread.

[Shaitan]

Satisfied with this revision? I do really find most of the changes welcome.