Summoning Spells for V4

[bradinmemph]

i like a lot of the ideas

 

i like the preposed golem and outsider tracks.. including imps and such,.,,, golem track could start with a low lvl goem spell at 9th lvl and the rest hla's

 

might even look at some of refinements ideas.. for other classes HLA .. since they dont play as is on EE..

maybe thats more for KR??

 

like pitfiend/balor replacing dark planetar...

 

like many of the preposed MS tracks

 

I suggested chimera.. and other things and was told things without stock animations are a no go.. or pain in butt unicorns herd..... blink dogs...pack... i liked summoning something non evil maybe something that could heal and provide iother types of support than tanking.. or attack...mode.. anyways like the beholder leader..

for a group ms7?ms8?

 

i do like the golem and ousider summons tracks though i totally understand preserving "special" feel maybe golems as HLA possiblities for clr and mage/sorcerer..

 

i am concerned with spell slots as bg2ee and bgee screws sorcerers.. for spell selection tobex isnt an option so 24 is our hard max

limit( yes we can hidespl.2da or pre set up our selection for each and every lvl before we even start a game with whastever the pick for me 2da is but both of those suck as work arounds..imo

 

 

unless they patch it which theyve said is low low priority

mages have other options for learning spells that dont show on the selection screen at lvl up..

so with that in mind and maybe just plan ..cannabillizing some slots..for other ideas....

 

maybe combining.. djin and efreet ionto one spell

that has a sub selection menu "air or fire"

that saves a slot..

heck you c ould do that and put all the elementals into one spell conjure elemental....

 

with afire,air or earth, sub menu and save 2 spell slots..

 

the nish and the hashLMNOP>>>>>> could be 1 spell at base lvl it summons nish...blah blah..

at base lvl +5 or something it summons the hasha blah blah since they are the same thing ones just the buffer version of the other...

saves another spell slot

 

now you have some room to play

 

maybe put in one non hla golem spell as a high lvl spel;l for flesh golem

 

and make the rest HLA selections progressive..

 

put one or two.. for new ousiders../ fiend summons..

 

something else...

just my ideas... i know its a bit of reorg but it will ulitmatly free up space to "explore a bit"

........

[Ardanis]

MSVII

I'd put Umber Hulks here for the same reason: too many enemies immune to confusion at higher levels.

 

I personally find confusion a mere nice bonus, not the defining feature of the spell. Above all, Umber Hulks are fast and tough melee brutes, making them possibly the best melee-oriented summon to exist.

MSVIII

This might sound kinda crazy, but maybe... can we consider troll summoning? Those would be the ultimate tanks indeed (or, at least, a very formidable distraction).

 

We can fix the "trolls won't fall down" bug, but we can't make AI not target fallen trolls with non-fire/acid attacks.

We can make trolls non-targettable while they're regenerating, but they can still block the passing.

I don't remember if there was an opcode to remove the sprite's searchmap blockade. If it exists and can be made to work, then we're good.

 

In the latter case I would try the following setup - trolls (6), wyverns (7), umber hulks (8)

 

 

MS IX

I recall seeing treants in BG2, although I don't remember if those were ported from other games.

 

Also we could try and re-use the snake sprite as Naga.

[n-ghost]

Oh, btw.

 

Ettins

[bradinmemph]

reprocess one of the dog variants as blink dogs.. ..stick a horn on a horse and call it herd of unicorns..??

 

... like naga and ettins..

 

griffins , manticores led by chimera...

though the animations woould be fudged other critters animations ..i understand making new anima is a pain...

 

(no idea)

[Salk]

Great ideas here for high level MS spells!

[janoha]

I have an idea and I don't know if it is actually possible or not.

 

I would like to see the summoning cap substantially raised, but at the same time I would like different creatures to count differently towards the cap. For instance all critters from lower level summoning spells would just count 1 each, while higher HD creatures would count more than one. Planetars and pit fiends for instance, would maybe cost 5 points towards the cap.

 

The idea is to allow for "swarms" of low level monsters, while not allowing you to have five aerials servants, for example.

 

Is something like this possible?

[bradinmemph]

but in tob battles you dont need swarms of 3hd creatures but 5 Aerial servants..bg2tweaks removes the cap for summons

 

caps..

[Ardanis]

With a bit of trickery and hackery, I believe it is possible to enforce an individual summon cap per caster. Well... a lot of trickery and hackery, actually.

But the problem is that without clear indication of how many HD you have left towards the cap, there will be cases of spells lost to such ignorance. This is something I would much rather to avoid, since there's no functionality in engine to withhold and preserve a casting if custom conditions are not met.

[Jarno Mikkola]

...chimera...

though the animations

But we got Infinity Animations mod for that... and you are free to reuse any of the resources in any and all mods, as these are taken from the games themselves. So look at the bottom of the linked page for the possibilities.

And yes, it works better on the EE than in non-EE game, as I said already, you don't need to hack away the .exe, as you just got to import the sounds and animation files(including the sound table) and you are done. The only reason why the mod is not videly used is that it uses the 126+ characters in codepage table, and those won't be the correct ones unless you have the 1252 codepage in use. It will get fixed at a point or another if Miloch ever gets back to upload the files.

Although I don't think most those actually fit into the game lore so much. Whatever.

[bradinmemph]

hmm all my reading says infin anime doesnt install nicely on bgee bg2ee and the calls are all wrong ive tested this a small amount as a a couple spell packs use em and seems like it doesnt work very smoothly..

 

 

modding isnt my forte..

im much better as a beta tester/crash test dummy

 

 

so i could very well be in error

 

just point me at a viable set of anime and ill come up with suggestions LOL

 

 

ill take your word for what works and what doesnt until/unless beta testing proves otherwise or someone more skilled as coder than i says otherwise

[leania]

hmm all my reading says infin anime doesnt install nicely on bgee bg2ee and the calls are all wrong ive tested this a small amount as a a couple spell packs use em and seems like it doesnt work very smoothly..

 

this

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/19501/resource-pack-extended-animations

 

might be an option??

I already suggested to demi about using the mod, but he seems not to agree with it.

[n-ghost]

Let's wrap this thing up already.

 

Imo, MS should keep it's hands off everything that could be considered as "animal". That includes spiders, carrion crawlers and wyverns.

 

 

So the list of summonning spells can look like this:

 

MS

 

 

MSI

Gibberlings, 1\3\5 of them, maybe with an ability to "gate" an additional gibberling for each summoned ;D

 

MSII

Either a party of kobolds or oozes that won't chunk the quest NPCs. Kobolds are the way to go imo. Yarr yarr yuip yip yip yip!

 

MSIII

A party of ogres, because it's their only chance to shine and sparkle. An ogre magi at higher levels as an addition.

 

MSIV

2-4 self-hasted minotaurs with +1\+2 axes.

 

MSV

2 Wolfweres + 1 Greater Wolfwere later.

 

MSVI

Otyugh and Greater Otyugh.

 

MSVII

Umber Hulks.

 

MSVIII

3 Gauths + a Beholder later.

 

MSIX

Salamanders and Noble Salamanders. Ettins would've been cool, but I fear that they'll be crashing the game same as vermin simply because of lacking animations (do they have any "unconscious" animation, for example?).

 

 

 

AS

 

 

 

ASI

Rabid Dogs, disease on hit same as with rats\bats; invisibility detecting War Dogs as a late addition (like when the caster hits level 5 or so).

ASII

Wolves, with Dire\Vampiric Wolf additions.

 

ASIII

Spiders, all of the kind: Giant, Sword and Wraith.

 

ASIV

Carrion Crawlers and Greater Carrion Crawlers.

 

ASV

Great Cats (hasted fighter-based Leopards + hasted invisible Black Panther later on, backstab multiplier x3, maybe have a chance to apply bleed on hit).

 

ASVI

Bears and Polar Bears, should have Hardiness, Polar Bears obviously must be immune to cold (hello Ice Storm combo).

 

ASVII

Wyverns and Greater Wyverns, with slowing and paralytic poison. Also maybe wing buffet vs medium\small creatures?

 

 

 

So. What do you think, everyone?

[bradinmemph]

Let's wrap this thing up already.

 

Imo, MS should keep it's hands off everything that could be considered as "animal". That includes spiders, carrion crawlers and wyverns.

 

 

So the list of summonning spells can look like this:

 

MS

 

 

MSI

Gibberlings, 1\3\5 of them, maybe with an ability to "gate" an additional gibberling for each summoned ;D

 

MSII

Either a party of kobolds or oozes that won't chunk the quest NPCs.

 

MSIII

A party of ogres, because it's their only chance to shine. An ogre magi at higher levels as an addition.

 

MSIV

2-4 self-hasted minotaurs with +1\+2 axes.

 

MSV

2 Wolfweres + 1 Greater Wolfwere later.

 

MSVI

Otyugh and Greater Otyugh.

 

MSVII

Umber Hulks.

 

MSVIII

3 Gauths + a Beholder later.

 

MSIX

Salamanders and Noble Salamanders. Ettins would've been cool, but I fear that they'll be crashing the game same as vermin simply because of lacking animations (do they have any "unconscious" animation, for example?).

 

 

 

AS

 

 

 

ASI

Rabid Dogs, disease on hit same as with rats\bats; invisibility detecting War Dogs as a late addition (like when the caster hits level 5 or so).

 

ASII

Wolves, with Dire\Vampiric Wolf additions.

 

ASIII

Spiders, all of the kind: Giant, Sword and Wraith.

 

ASIV

Carrion Crawlers.

 

ASV

Great Cats (hasted fighter-based Leopards + hasted invisible Black Panther later on, backstab multiplier x3, maybe have a chance to apply bleed on hit).

 

ASVI

Bears and Polar Bears, should have Hardiness, Polar Bears obviously must be immune to cold (hello Ice Storm combo).

 

ASVII

Wyverns and Greater Wyverns, with normal and paralytic poison.

 

 

 

So. What do you think, everyone?

+1

[n-ghost]

Just want to add that I can't wait for the final release because sheer hilarity of throwing bears all over Amelyssan's face.

[Demivrgvs]

@n-ghost, carrion crawlers and wyverns are not "animals" at all, they are an aberration and magical-beast respectively. While certain vermins and magica beast could make sense, I'm strongly against using stuff like Vampiric Wolf and Spider Wraith for druid's AS spells. Similarly, don't expect me to use permanent-haste on any animal, we can only discuss their base movement speed (e.g. vanilla bears are too slow).

 

Few more doubts:

- Ogres and Ogre Mage will stay where they are. They are already 10 times more powerful than anything you would get to summon within PnP and your suggested change, moving them to the new MSIII (aka level 5 casters) would make them OP for BG1.

- some of you guys suggested Trolls...I thought about them too but unless we remove that terrible death mechanic the AI would be fully unable to counter them. I'd like trolls to have higher regen rate, vulnerability to acid/fire (e.g. -25% res) and no stupid "lay down animation" with broken scripts, but I fear it's waay out of SR scope to change game creatures, and I want summons to be as consistent as possible to the creatures we already have in-game.

- beholders are way too powerful to be summonable imo, even within MSVIII, I think they would rape the AI. Am I the only one thinking it?

 

Just want to add that I can't wait for the final release because sheer hilarity of throwing bears all over Amelyssan's face.

LOL