Roxanne's Inofficial Mod Versions

[Cahir]

Blash I see you're present in Roxanne's forum and already suggested some mod updates. Can you suggest her to use proper mod versions that were recently updated to work with EET? It's really confusing. I would probably think about using EE Mod Setup for convenience (it's much less complicated to use that PI), but there is so many unofficial mod versions, strange patches or conflict dependencies I really don't understand that I won't use it. I would rather spend more time to prepare proper install order in PI that risk installing some mod in different state that original author envisioned it.

EDIT: Just a random example. The tool states that Epic Thieving mod is conflicting Adalon's Blood. How on earth this great mod is conflicting Adalon's Blood among any other mods?

Edited April 11, 2020 by Cahir

[jastey]

@Cahir @Blash2 moved this here.

[Cahir]

@jastey yeah, sorry didn't want to hijack your topic. It's just I'm so disappointed to not be able to use a nice tool because of so many sketchy versions, patches and mod compatibility info I really don't trust... I truly don't understand why Roxanne doesn't want to change her versions to official ones. I always thought it was made as a temporary solution until native EET compatibility is provided. 

[Jarno Mikkola]

40 minutes ago, Cahir said:

It's just I'm so disappointed to not be able to use a nice tool because of so many sketchy versions, patches and mod compatibility info I really don't trust... I truly don't understand why Roxanne doesn't want to change her versions to official ones. I always thought it was made as a temporary solution until native EET compatibility is provided. 

Have you tried to play the Mega Moded Game with a particular party ? News flash, there are several mods that force add party members into your full party so that you can complete the minute "story" and then be silent for the rest of the 1000's of hours of game you might take to complete the sidepath 427.381.965 . The particular solution Roxanne has done is to adopt most if not 150 mods and provided an easy path to not fill your party and still keep your party not full of revolving closet of selfish idiots that are there to provide a few lines, that when not triggered, the NPC just tags your mainchar with a ActionOverride(Player1,Kill("Myself")). With BEW, Roxannes NPC does the quest tagging. Yes, technically it might not be exactly this, but it's about there.

Yes, and I also critized Roxanne for this, but that's besides points. The old BWS/BWP handled this differently, you just unbeknowing chose your path that might have lead to no where and you probably needed cheats to just get through a door, let alone all the monsters and what-you-got's. Broken romances and so forth, cause you might have killed the needed character few years ago as a part of another Quest mod. Or it got deleted cause it didn't fit in the map, or you were half a world away when the romance dialog triggered that needed to be answered yesterday.

[CamDawg]

Hmm, a new Roxanne version of Amber has reappeared in the EET Install Tool, along with a slate of other mods. Strangely these mods already have working EE versions, yet are not forked from their original repos and are only used by the EET Install Tool. How odd.

[Cahir]

20 minutes ago, Jarno Mikkola said:

Have you tried to play the Mega Moded Game with a particular party ? News flash, there are several mods that force add party members into your full party so that you can complete the minute "story" and then be silent for the rest of the 1000's of hours of game you might take to complete the sidepath 427.381.965 . The particular solution Roxanne has done is to adopt most if not 150 mods and provided an easy path to not fill your party and still keep your party not full of revolving closet of selfish idiots that are there to provide a few lines, that when not triggered, the NPC just tags your mainchar with a ActionOverride(Player1,Kill("Myself")). With BEW, Roxannes NPC does the quest tagging. Yes, technically it might not be exactly this, but it's about there.

Yes, and I also critized Roxanne for this, but that's besides points. The old BWS/BWP handled this differently, you just unbeknowing chose your path that might have lead to no where and you probably needed cheats to just get through a door, let alone all the monsters and what-you-got's. Broken romances and so forth, cause you might have killed the needed character few years ago as a part of another Quest mod. Or it got deleted cause it didn't fit in the map, or you were half a world away when the romance dialog triggered that needed to be answered yesterday.

Jarno, I don't get your point, sorry. I don't want to install god knows how heavily modded game. Nevertheless it will contain a considerable amount of mods, that's why EE Mod Setup would be handful. But a) I want to use official mod versions, b) I want to understand compatibility issues and how to prevent them. EE tool has bunch of compatibility info I really don't understand, which may even be not true with official mod versions. On the other hand to use PI I would need to prepared my own install order and I'm not experienced with all mod dependencies to do that on my own. 

[Cahir]

10 minutes ago, CamDawg said:

Hmm, a new Roxanne version of Amber has reappeared in the EET Install Tool, along with a slate of other mods. Strangely these mods already have working EE versions, yet are not forked from their original repos and are only used by the EET Install Tool. How odd.

Probably because Roxanne's versions contain *other fixes* tailored for her grand slam Sandrah mod which would never be approved by original authors. 

[jastey]

No, it's not just Amber. It's almost every mod the EE Setup Tool uses. Downloaded from an inofficial GitHub repo, Dropbox account or her web site. Including changes not approved by the authors. Which is the reason for the hidden inofficial downloads.

This makes the whole "this mod is buggy" and "that mod is incompatible with that mod" proclamations from Roxanne so hilarious, because she is basically talking about her own inoffcial versions.

 

[jastey]

1 hour ago, Cahir said:

I always thought it was made as a temporary solution until native EET compatibility is provided. 

Didn't we all think this. As we say in German: "thinking is a matter of good luck."

[Jarno Mikkola]

2 hours ago, jastey said:

This makes the whole "this mod is buggy" and "that mod is incompatible with that mod" proclamations from Roxanne so hilarious, because she is basically talking about her own inoffcial versions.

Well, have you checked Leonardo Watsons BWP.pdf's ? Cause I suspect that there's a bit of that and bit of Roxanne's own knowledge spiced up to the concoction. And that's an alchemy of multiple other forums...

[Blash2]

Well, this is a weighty topic you're (we're) raising. 

I'll start making clear something I already told her in private. It's really sad seeing this sort of division among extremely competent and productive people in the Baldur's Gate modding world. I'm not entirely aware of what happened during the years, nor do I have a qualified point of view, so I won't go into the detail, but let me just say that it is really a pity.

That said, I faced this issue about one month and a half ago, before starting my last playthrough. I noticed some URLs in the BWS (now "install tool") configuration files that were different from the "official" ones. I can't go into the detail because some time has passed, but let me make some examples:

- DSotSC:  the install tool correctly downloads the Spellhold Github version. What Roxanne did in her fixpack is correct a found issue about which I also opened an issue: https://github.com/SpellholdStudios/DSotSC/issues/12

- Secret of Bone Hill: apparently the original mod hasn't been updated and Roxanne is fixing the bugs over the years

I don't remember other "incoherences" at the moment, maybe because I don't really use NPC mod (I installed many of them just to add some flavour to the game, but I use a fixed party) and I didn't check the addresses from which they're downloaded. Quest mods were mainly ok, as I remember.

I have two things to say more:

1. I tried Project Infinity but really couldn't understand how to use it, starting from a problem configuring Github download from inside the program. I went back to the former BWS for a practical reason.

2. Roxanne provides a kind of assistance that unlikely can be obtained from single mod mantainers. I chose that tool also because of this. She also updated K4thos (discontinued and abandoned) "Protagonist can die" tweak from EET Tweaks to work with 2.5 game releases.

As for the rest, as you can see I'm often suggesting mod updates as I see them. 

I'd really like experimenting Project Infinity, as well as I'd really like to see the modding community as a whole and not as two distinct communities.

[Cahir]

39 minutes ago, Blash2 said:

Well, this is a weighty topic you're (we're) raising. 

I'll start making clear something I already told her in private. It's really sad seeing this sort of division among extremely competent and productive people in the Baldur's Gate modding world. I'm not entirely aware of what happened during the years, nor do I have a qualified point of view, so I won't go into the detail, but let me just say that it is really a pity.

That said, I faced this issue about one month and a half ago, before starting my last playthrough. I noticed some URLs in the BWS (now "install tool") configuration files that were different from the "official" ones. I can't go into the detail because some time has passed, but let me make some examples:

- DSotSC:  the install tool correctly downloads the Spellhold Github version. What Roxanne did in her fixpack is correct a found issue about which I also opened an issue: https://github.com/SpellholdStudios/DSotSC/issues/12

- Secret of Bone Hill: apparently the original mod hasn't been updated and Roxanne is fixing the bugs over the years

I don't remember other "incoherences" at the moment, maybe because I don't really use NPC mod (I installed many of them just to add some flavour to the game, but I use a fixed party) and I didn't check the addresses from which they're downloaded. Quest mods were mainly ok, as I remember.

I have two things to say more:

1. I tried Project Infinity but really couldn't understand how to use it, starting from a problem configuring Github download from inside the program. I went back to the former BWS for a practical reason.

2. Roxanne provides a kind of assistance that unlikely can be obtained from single mod mantainers. I chose that tool also because of this. She also updated K4thos (discontinued and abandoned) "Protagonist can die" tweak from EET Tweaks to work with 2.5 game releases.

As for the rest, as you can see I'm often suggesting mod updates as I see them. 

I'd really like experimenting Project Infinity, as well as I'd really like to see the modding community as a whole and not as two distinct communities.

The main issue with PI is not that the tool is not intuitive (it's pretty straightforward to use, actually), it's that you need to compile your own sort order for installed mods. Not knowing all mod dependencsies is the real issue for me. If more people would share their sort lists that worked for them would help immensly. It far more easier to just tweak such a list than compile it from scratch. 

Coming back to Roxanne's unoficcial mod versions, I really think all those changes are made solely to fit more to Sandrah Saga. Roxanne just uses this tool to self-promote her mod, which is not something I'm OK with, because SS is not the mod I would ever install. The main issue here is that mod authors are constantly flooded by bug or incompatibility reports for Roxanne's mod versions. Poor jastey had to reply numerous such questions in the past. 

[Blash2]

Well, talking about PI, you could (maybe I'll try again) import Roxanne's tool install order and then post it on the forum for double checking.

@jastey would you help with this? 

Please (in Imoen's voice)? 

[StummvonBordwehr]

Just adding my 50 cents. Sorry if I open old wounds.

What happened over the years have is a usage of other people’s work without consent. And it’s still happening in 2020. 
 

If you wish to be a part of a community, respect for other people’s work and consent is mandatory if you want to change something  - no matter how helpful you are towards people who like your work. I sincerely hope for redemption for Roxanne and her project. Time will tell if that ever comes to pass.

But until the above comes to pass, I steer clear of Roxanne and her project. Not for the lack of helpfulness, but for the lack of consent.

[Blash2]

2 cents you meant, otherwise you're adding a famous rapper