The Sensuous Permission-Free Crossmod Banter Author

[Amaurea]

I think I'm going to start my own thread - the cmorgan fan club.

[DavidW]

Dear Ms. Amaurea,

 

We write on behalf of our client Mr cmorgan.

 

Our client has informed us of your stated intention to produce derivative works based in whole or in part on his own creative work, viz a "cmorgan fan club".

 

It is our unpleasant duty to inform you that our client takes a dim view of any attempt to profit from or otherwise use his intellectual property.

 

We hereby serve notice that you are asked to CEASE and DESIST from any further development of the cmorgan fan club without further explicit permission from our client. Failure to comply with this request will lead to legal action.

 

We remain your obedient servants,

 

messr. Sue, Grabbit and Run

(Attorneys at Law)

[cmorgan]

(That's Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe over here in the US - you listed the UK partners, DavidW)

 

Amaurea, pay no attention to that masked man - he is a Fig Newton of my imagination. You are hereby free to derive whatever works you can out of anything I do, because any real musician realizes that all "creative" acts are reworkings of the cultural and sociological interactions of humans and thier historical record and surroundings. Others ( c.f. Campbell and historical anthropology, Myths) have explored the roles myths and mores, and authors/dancers/writers/composers enact and re-enact/reinterpret these subconscious stirvings for meaning in ways designed to bring aesthetic affect and symbolism into conjunction. In other words, creativity lies in playing with cultural expectations and sociological norms in a way most likely to induce extremes of aesthetic affect (hey, my whole research stuff is centered around Suzanne Langer, Bennet Reimer, et al - I can spout this stuff all day )

 

Or, succinctly; You go, girl.

 

On topic; http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?s...st&p=118733

 

Edit: massive typofest. Someday, I will learn to type with more than three fingers and my right thumb.

[Guest hyppocrit_patrol]

Although I'm just an occasional visitor of these fora, I would like to express my full agreement with Amaurea's post above. Wounded Lion considerably wounded (pun intended) this potentially interesting discussion with his amateurish and completely pseudofilopsychosociological gibberish and probably wetted quite a lot of tissues in the process. He is an obvious troll and should be immediately goblinized preferably by returning original discussion on topic and leaving his ridiculously babyish comments ignored.

P.S.: If he is actually she, I'm taking back that tissue issue.

 

How can you justify calling Wounded_Lion a troll when (antagonistic or not) and then proceed to hurl flames/insults at him that have nothing to do with the topic at hand?

 

You have behaved in a far more antagonistic manner than he ever has. Get a brain.

[Wounded_Lion]

In response to obvious bait: Chalk it up to indifference.

 

I see that many grandiose words strung together between a title and a subtitle and rapidly decide I can't be bothered to read it.

 

You have a problem with my title (which is mostly humorous and plays on jcompton's title, the nature of this debate, and my position as Devil), so you dismiss a possibly valid argument against your position? You care that little about maintaining the integrity of your position?

 

Aaaaaand, I'll take this opportunity to throw in my non-intellectual response from purely a players perspective.

 

What you (WL) are doing has completely derailed a very good discussion. For a bit there, before you turned the discussion into a pissing contest, it seemed like something might actually get done to solve an ongoing problem.

 

I speak as a player, because that's probably all I'll ever be, and my interests are simple:

 

Crossmod = good.

Removing what has PROVEN (I'll take the word on people who've actually been there on this one) to be an impediment to Crossmod will make for more Crossmod.

More Crossmod = BETTER.

 

Intellectual bickering, size comaprisons, and playing Devil's Advocate = nothing to do with solving Crossmod problems.

 

How have I derailed the thread by attempting to provide a counter-viewpoint to the ethical argument put forth by jcompton?

 

Btw, I can piss further than you. So there.

 

Although I'm just an occasional visitor of these fora, I would like to express my full agreement with Amaurea's post above. Wounded Lion considerably wounded (pun intended) this potentially interesting discussion with his amateurish and completely pseudofilopsychosociological gibberish and probably wetted quite a lot of tissues in the process. He is an obvious troll and should be immediately goblinized preferably by returning original discussion on topic and leaving his ridiculously babyish comments ignored.

P.S.: If he is actually she, I'm taking back that tissue issue.

 

Flame me. Insult me. Then call me a troll. That's hilarious.

 

@ALL: I'm antagonistic. I'm a prick. So what? Are you that timid? At least I attempt to provide legitimate contributions to the discussion.

 

aWL

[Kaeloree]

SHS Banters Project is a new community project which any person can contribute to, and deals exclusively with BioWare ™ NPCs. There are little or no authorship rights, as participating in the community project basically is a fun and friendly thing; in cases of dispute, "authorship rights" are arbitrated by K'aeloree.

I make the final decision as to what goes in and what needs more editing, but that's the only thing you haven't got there.

[Kulyok]

Same here with Romantic Encounters: we've got plenty of encounters with Bioware NPCs, and everyone is free to write crossmod with RE, though if it's bad, it's your own fault(and I'll sneer at you anyway), but RE does not and will not include any crossmod. Do Not Want Any Trouble ™.

 

Besides, it's both nice and convenient(=fewer bug reports) to say "Yes, sure, you can install RE at any point in your installation, though you're well advised to install old mods and big mods first, if at all."

[Guest DeepO]

How can you justify calling Wounded_Lion a troll when (antagonistic or not) and then proceed to hurl flames/insults at him that have nothing to do with the topic at hand?

 

I just had a strong suspicion that Mr. Lion posted in this thread not for the sake of relevant discussion but only for his own enjoyment of rhetorical exercise and thus, also due to the amount of posts quantitatively not so far from spamming, rendered this thread fairly ineffective.

Although my post was completely off-topic in relation to this thread's content, I believe that it was on-topic to its form. I was merely trying to bait other users to return on-topic and stop taking Mr. Lion too seriously.

As for the discussion itself I cannot provide much of legitimate contribution because I'm not modder. But since I am player, I was quite interested in some conclusion and possible consequences of the original idea and simply wasn't happy watching this thread derailing from its merit further and further.

My ilegitimate opinion is, that the idea of letting released mod NPCs live their own life in crossmod universe is pretty cool. Such NPC has an interesting opportunity to become subject of creative discourse and possibly acquire more facets than one modder is capable to provide. Of course, there is always risk that someone writes very poor or abusive dialogue for it but then, quite possibly his respective NPC is also poorly written and has little reception. Let the player be the judge. But in most cases I can imagine that it would be rather complimentary to create an NPC for which people want to write crossmod. Also such crossmod may serve as a mean of feedback between modders. To me the whole thing is almost postmodern in its principle which is, given my usual way of thinking, rather attractive to me. The idea has potential to encourage creative movements and I am of opinion that either modders or players would benefit from ti much more than suffer.

Well, now I have to load that Quest for Brain hot mod.

As a postscript I'd like to add that I don't think anything bad about Mr. Lion, quite the opposite - to me he seems like very cool guy, I was just uncomfortable with his discussing ways. This http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LionMonument2007.jpg is one of my favourite sculptures, btw

Wishing well!

[Wounded_Lion]

@Deep-O:

 

It's cool. I don't let things said in an online forum get under my skin. Besides, some of those insults made me laugh, so you're automatically forgiven any offense.

 

aWL

[Guest EarthquakeDamage]

Somehow this thread gave me this strange idea: A gimmick NPC with "fill-in-the-blanks" dialogue, who only ever says "..." but gives the player a variety of responses, none of which respond to the same thing. One response may suggest said NPC insulted the PC while another could respond to a deep philosophical question.

 

Come to think of it, that'd make the NPC like quite a few console RPG protagonists.

[Caedwyr]

With regards to the opening post, I come down on the side of "It's nice to ask for permission, but don't let that be an absolute barrier to modding". I've seen in other modding communities where certain modders create something of value to the entire community and then try to prevent anyone else from using that as a base or part of a standard install package for other modders.

 

For example, Sins of a Solar Empire. A Real-Time Strategy game combined with Master of Orion/Galactic Civilizations 4x gameplay. It features beautiful and epic fleet encounters. One modder took it on himself and redid all of the in-game ship models and graphical effects at much higher resolution/shiny/nice looking. He included all of these features which almost everyone wants to install in a mod package along with a number of balance changes that not everyone is interested in. He also tends to refuse permission for other modders to include his redone models/textures/effects in their modding packages. He only wants things distrubuted with his package.

 

Now, combining mods is much more difficult in Sins of a Solar Empire than BG2, so the modders who have taken it upon themselves to combine this mod with other popular mods have been providing the general user community with a service. Its something that a lot of people want, but the heavy restrictions placed by the original author of the nice graphics goes against the larger community. It is an unfortunate situation and seems to be resolving itself by most people just ignoring the modder who did the nice graphics. Maybe he'll throw a fit, take his toys back, and not produce anything else, or maybe not. Either way the general user doesn't really care that much and given the frequency with which combinations of mods including his show up for the game he's fighting a losing battle.

 

 

So, in summary based on my experiences, and the above example was only one of many, getting permission is nice but shouldn't be the absolute end so long as you are not attempting to make a profit off the work.

[Kulyok]

I've seen in other modding communities where certain modders create something of value to the entire community and then try to prevent anyone else from using that as a base or part of a standard install package for other modders.

 

Well, yeah. If somebody makes a package which bundles several PPG(G3, SHS) mods together and uploads it somewhere, my guess is that this person is not going to be welcome in the community at all, just like it was with that kovarex guy.

[Caedwyr]

I've seen in other modding communities where certain modders create something of value to the entire community and then try to prevent anyone else from using that as a base or part of a standard install package for other modders.

 

Well, yeah. If somebody makes a package which bundles several PPG(G3, SHS) mods together and uploads it somewhere, my guess is that this person is not going to be welcome in the community at all, just like it was with that kovarex guy.

 

 

An equivalent situation would have been if The_Bigg had included the Widescreen mod in a package that also rebalanced all the fights in the game, removed all Sorcerer and Wizards spells, and be written in such a way that you needed to include the Widescreen component in every mod that wanted to use the Widescreen capabilities. Obviously, with the much more compatibility friendly Weidu arrangement for the IE games this isn't really an issue, but for other games where intercompatibility amongst mods is not as common it tends to be a bigger deal.

[Guest a question]

Um, haven't most of you G3/PPG guys/gals argued that permissions aren't necessary? Why would kovarex or the bigg be unwelcome for using your materials?

[jastey]

the bigg be unwelcome for using your materials?

That's how rumours start.