Improved Anvil v5+ and BWL

[the bigg]

Depends on what you consider to be a bug in AI scripts.

<...>

Same with the paladin thing. How do you know that a foe is a paladin, let alone a cavalier or inquisitor? I guess the real IA players do not care about that. They are in it for the challenge rather than the logic.

I don't care about the logic of how you know that someone is a paladin - to get better, AI mods "must" know stuff like that about the players. My observation is that IA clerics won't turn if Player2 is a Paladin, but will turn if Player1 is a Paladin or Keldorn is in the party (and, even more abstrusely, won't turn if Player1 is a non-Cavalier, Player2 is a Cavalier, and Keldorn is not in the party). If I reported such behavior to DavidW, he'd say something among the lines of "I have difficulties scripting for the generic case" or "I'll fix it in the next version". When I posted this here, Raven (one of the IA testers) claimed that it was a deliberate design decision to script it like that.

[Proteus_za]

I think his point was more that, if you see an enemy human in the game, you have no way of working what its kit is until it backstabs you and gets a 7x multiplier. So, that being the case, how in RP terms could an enemy know what you are? the only thing I can think of is that perhaps you are notorious enough that creatures far and wide know what you are and what you are capable of.

 

I don't care about the logic of how you know that someone is a paladin - to get better, AI mods "must" know stuff like that about the players. My observation is that IA clerics won't turn if Player2 is a Paladin, but will turn if Player1 is a Paladin or Keldorn is in the party (and, even more abstrusely, won't turn if Player1 is a non-Cavalier, Player2 is a Cavalier, and Keldorn is not in the party). If I reported such behavior to DavidW, he'd say something among the lines of "I have difficulties scripting for the generic case" or "I'll fix it in the next version". When I posted this here, Raven (one of the IA testers) claimed that it was a deliberate design decision to script it like that.

 

Um can someone explain this to me - I dont understand the point of enemy clerics turning when player 1 is a paladin or keldorn is in the party. Can Paladins be turned or something?

[Wisp]

Can Paladins be turned or something?

Yes, evil clerics can scare paladins by turning them. It doesn't even have to be an enemy cleric. E.g. Viconia can scare Keldorn while both of them are in your party.

[DavidW]

Can Paladins be turned or something?

Yes, evil clerics can scare paladins by turning them. It doesn't even have to be an enemy cleric. E.g. Viconia can scare Keldorn while both of them are in your party.

 

I looked into getting high-level clerics to do this in SCS, but it turns out that Remove Fear is a straightforward counter; on balance it didn't therefore seem worth it. IA gets around this by just auto-stripping magic defences from enemy paladins before applying the Turn effect, but that doesn't fit SCS's design principles.

[jastey]

What exactly means "to turn a paladin" in this case?

[Proteus_za]

Can Paladins be turned or something?

Yes, evil clerics can scare paladins by turning them. It doesn't even have to be an enemy cleric. E.g. Viconia can scare Keldorn while both of them are in your party.

 

I looked into getting high-level clerics to do this in SCS, but it turns out that Remove Fear is a straightforward counter; on balance it didn't therefore seem worth it. IA gets around this by just auto-stripping magic defences from enemy paladins before applying the Turn effect, but that doesn't fit SCS's design principles.

 

He automatically removes spell protections prior to doing that? Wow.... Thats a new low. Whats the point in doing any preparation then?

 

Well you could try doing that, but I suppose its really limited use. Only useful if one or more paladins exist in the party and they havent cast resist fear on themselves (and in fact, arent some Paladin kits immune to fear?). For an action that might take an entire round, I would think clerics have better things to do.

 

What exactly means "to turn a paladin" in this case?

 

As above - scaring them so that they run around like headless chickens.

[jastey]

As above - scaring them so that they run around like headless chickens.

Is it special because paladins are usually not scared easily, meaning every one else already left screaming, or is it a turning for paladins (only)?

[Aristide]

I will say, even if I did start playing IA and really enjoyed it (by some fluke, I try to avoid reloading unless I have to so its probably not for me), I wouldnt want to play it due to the sheer arrogance that its authors display. IA is far more interesting from a soap opera point of view however, the flaming posts that it seems to elicit (from both sides) wherever it goes.

 

Seems IA have successful in two things: 1, bg2 gamers looking for big challange. 2, forumers looking for 'soap opera'

 

As far arrogance, weren't many the big scientists, inventors, writers, queer or strange-belief fellows too? Not trying defending authors IA , they make money from free , but product can respected even if author if he's an ass IMO

 

~Aristide

[Daulmakan]

As far arrogance, weren't many the big scientists, inventors, writers, queer or strange-belief fellows too? Not trying defending authors IA , they make money from free , but product can respected even if author if he's an ass IMO

Did you just compare Sikret to a "big scientist"??

 

Good lord, you deserve each other.

[Aion]

We should all just boycot BWL / IA and forget they even exist. The "true fans" of their douchebaggery can go and stay there, the rest should just consider them non-existant...or dead.

[Guest!]

As far arrogance, weren't many the big scientists, inventors, writers, queer or strange-belief fellows too? Not trying defending authors IA , they make money from free , but product can respected even if author if he's an ass IMO

Did you just compare Sikret to a "big scientist"??

It's clear IA is the greatest invention since sliced bread and masturbation (considered separately).

[the bigg]

It's clear IA is the greatest invention since sliced bread and masturbation (considered separately).

Actually, IA is as great as performing invention #1 after invention #2 (without washing your hands in the interim).

[jastey]

Play nice, everyone.

[cmorgan]

As above - scaring them so that they run around like headless chickens.

Is it special because paladins are usually not scared easily, meaning every one else already left screaming, or is it a turning for paladins (only)?

 

In PnP AD&D, high level clerics and paladins begin to evidence greater contact with their chosen deity. Basically, just like the undead, enemies (or in the case of Keldorn and Viconia, party members serving dramatically opposing deities) feel the presence of the opposition. So a paladin of Ilmater may have Ilmater backing him up, but unlike a regular fighter, he is attuned to the presence of evil - and if the evil is very powerful, it can scare him more than a regular fighter or run-of-the-mill citizen. Assuming he fails his "test of faith" (saving throw), that is. A low-level paladin can't just walk up to the Prince of Darkness and try to smite him. Not enough faith, not enough connection with his god, a true appreciation of the evil and wrongness, etc... in PnP game terms, that is a good thing, or the requirements for being a Paladin would mean that the first time you ran into a high level bad guy, you would be basic canon fodder. Squish. Yum.

 

Basically, think of it as a morale check, with the relative powers of the depth of conviction to one's deity. If Viconia is high enough level, her 'aura' of Shar's shadow makes Keldorn more and more anxious, more and more conflicted about remaining with her or attacking her, until he either loses his morale check or simply smites her. Which is why it is silly to have a paladin sworn to smite evil hanging out with a high level priest of evil... Lucifer doesn't sit down with an Archangel and have a cup of tea, in FR terms. They just plain are on opposite sides of the coin, like two opposing magnets. one pushes at the other, and the strongest one wins.

[jastey]

Thank you, cmorgan, that was a very good explanation.