Mod Compatibility List for EET

[helo138]

 

Hello Roxanne,

 

can you tell me why you have made Faiths and Powers unavailable for an eet-install in BWS? I installed FnP on eet in the past and had no problems so far. Granted, I have not advanced to BG2 yet, so I don´t know if there are future problems waiting for me.

By the way, thanks for the continued support of BWS, it´s an very useful tool for big installs.

There was an error in the configuration with it..BWS shall follow EET-compatibility requirements to support it, not move ahead of EET and force mods not yet approved for EET.

 

PS - I do NOT maintain BWS, this is up to each modder to provide the own data they want in BWS by using the database *pull request* mechanism. All I do is to try and keep the EET selection up-to-date - but only when modders support this actively. It may appear as if I maintain BWS because I have done a lot of changes recently for a number of mods I try to maintain.

Current status of BWS is that there is no longer any *mastermind* doing all the work, but it is up to users and modders to support it - or not.

(Alien and others are still available for help when needed.)

 

Ok, thanks. Guess I have to install manually then.

[Roxanne]

 

 

Hello Roxanne,

 

can you tell me why you have made Faiths and Powers unavailable for an eet-install in BWS? I installed FnP on eet in the past and had no problems so far. Granted, I have not advanced to BG2 yet, so I don´t know if there are future problems waiting for me.

By the way, thanks for the continued support of BWS, it´s an very useful tool for big installs.

There was an error in the configuration with it..BWS shall follow EET-compatibility requirements to support it, not move ahead of EET and force mods not yet approved for EET.

 

PS - I do NOT maintain BWS, this is up to each modder to provide the own data they want in BWS by using the database *pull request* mechanism. All I do is to try and keep the EET selection up-to-date - but only when modders support this actively. It may appear as if I maintain BWS because I have done a lot of changes recently for a number of mods I try to maintain.

Current status of BWS is that there is no longer any *mastermind* doing all the work, but it is up to users and modders to support it - or not.

(Alien and others are still available for help when needed.)

 

Ok, thanks. Guess I have to install manually then.

 

This should be possible without any issue after a BWS install. In case it works in your game without issue, some feedback will be welcome, so the status of the mod vs EET can be clarified.

[subtledoctor]

Roxanne, this is pretty egregious behavior.

 

- You say FnP is not compatible with EET, when in fact it is, and there are many players using it with EET without issue for some time. Maybe k4thos is busy and has not yet updated one forum post, but this EET compatibility thread clearly states that it is compatible.

 

- You say no one is maintaining BWS but you yourself went into it and made changes that affect everyone. Clearly you see fit to make changes one way, but now you won't undo those changes when told you were mistaken?? Stop imposing your preferences on other players!

 

- And now you tell other players to install FnP last in the order, knowing full well that it should not be? And any problems from your bad advice will be brought to my doorstep. Don't give people misinformation!

 

- You know full well from many conversations that I do not have access to a Windows computer and thus I am unable to change and/or test changes to anything related to BWS. And knowing that, you give this paltry excuse of "each modder can fix on their own what I just broke." That's BS and you know it.

 

tl;dr: this was working fine until YOU broke it, seemingly out of ill will. Maybe it was not malicious - I'll accept it if so. But in either case please undo this unnecessary and unadvised change. (By your own logic, it wasn't your place to change it in the first place.)

 

Thank you.

Edited August 16, 2017 by subtledoctor

[helo138]

A short feedback on my newest EET-installation with BWS:

My install order goes like this (don´t know how to attach a file in this forum):

 

Ascension

Spell Revision

Faiths and Powers (interrupted installation and installed manually)

Might and Guile

Scales of Balance (without Magic Resistance Overhaul)

Refinements (only HLAs without Cleric and Druid ones)

SCS (complete accept for some tweaks)

Encounters from Rogue Rebalancing

 

The installation worked fine as far as I can tell (some minor warnings during SCS-installation (I think it has something to do with weapon proficiencies but not sure) no install error , but some steps of the SCS-installation took an awful lot of time).

I only installed the most important (for me) gameplay-altering mods. More mods (especially content) will follow if this basic mod composition is working.

 

Some feedback:

I started Throne of Bhaal and created a Mystic Warrior (Water Mystic). I leveled up via EE-Keeper and tried most of the available HLAs. All of them seem to work as the should, though I noticed that my Water Mystic can´t transform into a water elemental. I don´t know if this is intended or if it wasn´t fixed in the version I installed (FnP 0.74g). It looks like the problem only affects the new Warrior/Mystic Multiclass, because the pure Water Mystic gets both summoning of and transformation into a water elemental. (Should I notice more little bugs or features, I will report them on the fnp topic on the beamdog forums)

At last I tried the fight with Ilasera and got my ass handed to me so SCS seems to be in working order too (Invisibility, Chain Contingency etc).

 

I will make a bigger install and report back if there are any further problems. If someone is interested in my weidu-log or has other questions, feel free to ask.

 

And please, subtledoctor and roxanne, don´t fight amongst yourselves. You have both done much for the BG-community. I understand both of your viewpoints and won´t take sides, but this is only a minor issue (at least I hope it is), which shouldn´t cloud your "working relationship" in the future.

Edited August 16, 2017 by helo138

[jastey]

subtledoctor: I understood Roxanne the way that she maintains BWS for EET according the list in the first post. FnP was not on the list, so that is why it was not included in BWS. Now that you asked to put it in the list, it will go there and then Roxanne, who currently maintains BWS for EET, would put it in again.

[subtledoctor]

No problem. I just want to keep the record clear. It's a ridiculous policy to depend on a single post than can only be edited by one person, when that person has tended to go offline for long stretches. Threads have follow-up posts for a reason, to impart information relevant to the initial post.

 

Roxanne mentioned elsewhere that she thought the mod was not for EET, and I corrected her and informed her that it is. And then I reported the oversight in the appropriate place. Rather than respond, or discuss it, or even give any kind of advance notice of her actions, she just went and prevented interested users from using the mod. It only came to light when some 3rd parties were inconvenienced. And then she disclaimed responsibility, saying "BWS has no maintainer and maybe doers should actively support their mod," even though she is the maintainer in this instance, and we have actively supported the mod.

 

I have never been anything but civil to Roxanne, in fact putting extra effort into helping her make her mod compatible - for whatever reason, it is designed to be installed late on the order and I understand and sympathize with the resulting need to put extra work into cross-mod compatibility.

 

That's why this is exasperating. I don't think it's too much to ask for similar civility in return. How about a little communication and cooperation?

Edited August 16, 2017 by subtledoctor

[subtledoctor]

Btw @helo138 thank you for that feedback. I apologize that there is not a more convenient way to use the mod right now. I have done everything I can to make it available through BWS, but apparently that doesn't matter.

 

(Which is in itself an indictment of the way that BWS is structured and managed. But that's a different conversation.)

 

Be aware, there may be an issue with Sandrah as she has a custom kit and due to install order issues, the kit will not have sphere access. I gave code to Roxanne to make the kit compatible... but I don't know whether she has or will use it. (That's not a knock on the Sandrah mod... these things take time.)

 

If anyone does play with both mods, notwithstanding this hiccup, and there is a problem, let me know. If necessary I can make a small hotfix mod to install after Sandrah.

Edited August 16, 2017 by subtledoctor

[lynx]

I was able to contribute to BWS without being able to test, so that's a pretty silly excuse. And no, the changes did not go in without testing.

 

Anyway, has the configuration problem been found yet? All this angry ink spilled and the underlying problem doesn't appear to be clear at all.

[helo138]

@subtledoctor,

 

I already used FnP and Sandrah-mod together. At the moment I am in chapter 6, and in my experience the mods work reasonably well together. Sandrah has sphere-access and gets her own spells and abilities as the story progresses. I moved the recommended install spot from Sandrah to the end of the quest mod section (after quests and npcs but before tweaks and gameplay mods). As I haven´t played the mod before I can´t say if this change already led to some errors which I didn´t notice or if there will be bugs in future chapters. What I can say is, that I didn´t encounter any game breaking bugs until now.

 

Regarding FnP and BWS:

From my perspective the installation via BWS is not terribly inconvenient because I can stop BWS and install FnP manually, which takes less than 5 minutes. SCS on the other hand installs really slow and I hope a new version is coming soon.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I was able to contribute to BWS without being able to test, so that's a pretty silly excuse. And no, the changes did not go in without testing.

There's difference between users experience, in this... I wonder how well you could write code to a system that you have no idea how to learn to code to.

Try Finnish for example. Joo, kyllä sulla on opeteltavaa, tässäkin, eikö niin, nilviäinen.

[subtledoctor]

I was able to contribute to BWS without being able to test, so that's a pretty silly excuse.

I don't understand what "contribute to BWS" means. I can't clone the BitBucket repo to my GitHub app, for whatever reason, so I can't make a pull request that way. And the BitBucket page for BWS has a big honking warning that says "DO NOT USE THE WEB INTERFACE TO MAKE CHANGES." So I'm at a bit of loss as to what I can do on my end.

 

Anyway, has the configuration problem been found yet?

There is no configuration problem. Everything works fine. That's why I don't understand why Roxanne changed something in BWS to make the mod unavailable to EET players.

Edited August 16, 2017 by subtledoctor

[Roxanne]

@subtledoctor,

 

I already used FnP and Sandrah-mod together. At the moment I am in chapter 6, and in my experience the mods work reasonably well together. Sandrah has sphere-access and gets her own spells and abilities as the story progresses. I moved the recommended install spot from Sandrah to the end of the quest mod section (after quests and npcs but before tweaks and gameplay mods). As I haven´t played the mod before I can´t say if this change already led to some errors which I didn´t notice or if there will be bugs in future chapters. What I can say is, that I didn´t encounter any game breaking bugs until now.

 

Regarding FnP and BWS:

From my perspective the installation via BWS is not terribly inconvenient because I can stop BWS and install FnP manually, which takes less than 5 minutes. SCS on the other hand installs really slow and I hope a new version is coming soon.

I think you hit a very important issue here concerning EET and BWS:

Install sequence.

 

Looking back at the old game, especially BGT, there were years of experience with dependencies/conflicts/sequence that BWS could inherit from BWP. The sequence was sophisticated, with large mods often installing their different components split all over the sequence. In BGT a large number of fixes were available that manual install could hardly handle.

 

For EET, there was relatively little experience or other information to build on. Many mods had changed, some were no longer supported, apart from BWFixpack there was nothing to correct inherited bugs. Install sequence took former experience into account and tried to get dependencies etc from readme contents. This is a long process and has led to relatively good results. But the process was not yet finished and with more and more mods added to EET, it does not get easier.

The worst is that at this crucial point, BWS has lost all support that would be required. Add to this the fact that all you can do is within the limits of a system functionality that can no longer be modified. A single typo can break the whole tool.

 

Most of the issues you get from wrong install sequence are not detected so easily. If you are *lucky*, you detect them during install. But most of the time you find them very late in a game, when something is missing or screwed up etc because one mod counteracted some other mod's changes. We do not have that much experience yet with a game as young as EET. And we do not have anyone anymore who evaluates possible reports and translates them into BWS or Fixpack actions.

[lynx]

 

I was able to contribute to BWS without being able to test, so that's a pretty silly excuse.

I don't understand what "contribute to BWS" means. I can't clone the BitBucket repo to my GitHub app, for whatever reason, so I can't make a pull request that way. And the BitBucket page for BWS has a big honking warning that says "DO NOT USE THE WEB INTERFACE TO MAKE CHANGES." So I'm at a bit of loss as to what I can do on my end.

 

Your excuse is that a phillips screwdriver can't drive a flat head screw and it therefore can't be screwed? C'mon, stop with the trolling, intentional or not.

[subtledoctor]

 

 

I was able to contribute to BWS without being able to test, so that's a pretty silly excuse.

I don't understand what "contribute to BWS" means. I can't clone the BitBucket repo to my GitHub app, for whatever reason, so I can't make a pull request that way. And the BitBucket page for BWS has a big honking warning that says "DO NOT USE THE WEB INTERFACE TO MAKE CHANGES." So I'm at a bit of loss as to what I can do on my end.

Your excuse is that a phillips screwdriver can't drive a flat head screw and it therefore can't be screwed? C'mon, stop with the trolling, intentional or not.

I literally don't know what you're talking about. What "excuse?"

 

EDIT - you mean as far as editing stuff in the BWS repo? Excuse me for not being a 733+ hacker, I didn't realize being a noob = being a troll.

 

If you're going to be a jerk how about just leave the conversation.

 

Anyway even if I could figure out how to edit things in BWS and what, precisely to change (and unfortunately RL precludes me learning new stuff atm), it wouldn't make a difference because Roxanne would likely have just changed it back. The crux of my exasperation is that nothing actually needed to be edited, everything was properly coded and everything worked for users. So there was no reason to change anything. (Lynx you conveniently ignored the entire point of my complaint... nice.)

 

I think best practice/good manners would have been for Roxanne to run that change by us so we could discuss it first.

 

In any event she has evidently changed it back so, thank you for listening Roxanne.

Edited August 16, 2017 by subtledoctor

[Jarno Mikkola]

Your excuse is that a phillips screwdriver can't drive a flat head screw and it therefore can't be screwed?

Well, the thing is, that you can't seem to comprehend, he doesn't know how to use them... so there's no excuse man. It's a fact. So subtledoctor can't help without further instructions.