EET v13.4 released

[Roxanne]

 

that belt is the most overpowered item ever though, even considering cheesy mods.

Well, not so much... yeah, it will make Imoen unkillable yeah... but she'll kick herself out of the party right after the fight is over ... via a dialog that you can't refuse to not go through(as far as I know), and escapes with your wealth.

 

 

 

The dialog is not attached to the item (pst actually can do that) and I'm sure EET is not (re)assigning CI dialog to Spellhold Imoen.

The item prevents Imoen to die during Irenicus dungeon. When she is too low on HP, she escapes the dungeon with said dialogue to meet you outside (and be captured with Irenicus). This vanilla behaviour is not changed by EET (just played it a couple of days ago). In this aspect there is no change due to EET and none was to be expected.

[lynx]

Yes, but none of this is the item's fault. Vanilla baldur.bcs doesn't mention it or Imoen at all, so it was either a personal script or a check in all the CI area scripts. However, the problem is with the Spellhold Imoen.

 

But yes, another pointless discussion.

[argent77]

The low HP dialogue in Chateau Irenicus is triggered by Imoen's personal script. The Spellhold version uses a different script, so you can misuse the belt to survive pretty much any hostile encounter in the whole game.

Btw, it looks like she would even survive Imprisonment and Intelligence Drain. The only way to kill her is probably by sending her to the death trap on the first level of the Spellhold Maze, which kills everything.

[lynx]

Yeah, I also looked at the 60 odd effects. Other candidates: other main stat drain to 0 and potentially if anything can set the frozen/burnt/melting state (+ any normal hit == instachunks). Now it only protects against petrification.

[Roxanne]

Travelling to Spellhold in EET

 

There is a need for EET to change the trigger in baldur.bcs

 

IF
PartyGoldGT(14999)
Global("BodiAppear","GLOBAL",0)
GlobalGT("ShadowWork","GLOBAL",0)
Global("WorkingForAran","GLOBAL",0)
GlobalTimerExpired("ValenAppearTimer","GLOBAL")
AreaType(OUTDOOR)
OR(6)
AreaCheck("AR0300")
AreaCheck("AR0400")
AreaCheck("AR0500")
AreaCheck("AR0700")
AreaCheck("AR0900")
AreaCheck("AR1000")
CombatCounter(0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
ClearAllActions()
SetGlobal("BodiAppear","GLOBAL",1)
SetGlobalTimer("MakeBrusWait","GLOBAL",ONE_MINUTE)
CreateCreatureObject("ANAST",Player1,0,0,0) // Valen
ActionOverride("ANAST",StartDialogueNoSet(Player1))
END

 

into something more feasible for the combined game (maybe even tweak Gaelan diaogue to reflect new value). Without any item/tweak etc mods by just selling a few items found in the dungeon, first promenade visit and doing slum slaver quests, I already have enough gold to potentially finish chapter 14. (I was only at promenade, slums and docks so far). This is almost vanilla contents and still I could already go to Spellhold.

This is not an issue for EET Tweaks or some mod - this is something essential for EET basic features otherwise chapter 14 may easily be considered as bugged.

 

PS continuously repeating "EET should not change any vanilla content" does not make this already weak argument any better. EET is a new game experience and it should not be *bugged* by Valen (and Brus) alreadyappearing after an hour or so gameplay in Amn, this destroys the whole story and all you can do in chapter 14. (Who needs a stronghold now or even leave the town for quests to gain money??)

Edited September 7, 2016 by Roxanne

[Jarno Mikkola]

There is a need for EET to change

...into something more feasible for the combined game (maybe even tweak Gaelan diaogue to reflect new value). Without any item/tweak etc mods by just selling a few items found in the dungeon, first promenade visit and doing slum slaver quests, I already have enough gold to potentially finish chapter 14. (I was only at promenade, slums and docks so far). This is almost vanilla contents and still I could already go to Spellhold.

This is not an issue for EET Tweaks or some mod - this is something essential for EET basic features otherwise chapter 14 may easily be considered as bugged.

NO, ABSOLUTELY NO !

The SCS can do that for players that like to put their mothers to the mill to get their gold fillings too, but the EET should not !

 

PS continuously rep...

That only proves that you are blind to the whole argument. Done.

 

(Who needs a stronghold now or even leave the town for quests to gain money??)

Seems that you fail to see the absurdity of this argument... the last time I had one, I put more money into it than got out from it. Why, cause I got my moneys worth of XP out of it. You can go and put 5000-50 000 gold to a single bag of holding. Empty bag, to buy it. Seems like you have no idea what's the real game about. And yeah, you went to three portions of the map... but I bet you killed all the monsters and did the quest that were easily accessible. It's a bit different than what you did the first time* you went through the areas. Without walk through guide, if you practice that sorta thing.

 

*The first time being the factor that you feel is off now, when you do everything that's easy, while it wasn't the first time.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Jarno Mikkola

[Ulb]

.. continuously repeating "EET should not change any vanilla content" does not make this already weak argument any better. EET is a new game experience ..

 

I agree with you on that one and I think it is actually debatable whether or not the Gaelen's fee issue is at a point where a EET core change is warranted or not. Personally though, I think it's not at that point.

 

It has always been ridiculously easy to get the “20k” for Spellhold, that's nothing new to EET.

If Brus/Valen would spawn right away after you talked to Galaen (without you doing anything cheesy) then yes, that would probably warrant a EET core change. As it stands right now however, I don't think this is something EET needs to handle (at least on a core level).

After all, all EET does is to import a few more items from BG/SoD.

 

There is already a tweak out there that allows you to set the amount to up to 130k (Tweak anthology I think) and I would imagine most people already use that anyway. Once the IWD parts are integrated into EET it might be a good idea to offer a similar component in EET Tweaks, either with a customizable amount or at least a larger sum.

 

 

That only proves that you are blind to the whole argument. Done.

 

 

Well, to be fair she at least offered some points to support her stance while your whole point seems to be "You're wrong because I'm right!".

[Roxanne]

There is already a tweak out there that allows you to set the amount to up to 130k (Tweak anthology I think)

There is, and you may also use EET Tweaks etc.

 

My main argument was, that (even without item import and such) EET creates the situation where you have a party coming out of Irenicus dungeon and then talking to Gaylan which is almost immediately ready to go on to Spellhold (you need to carefully avoid to get too much money right away and spoil your game). The old value was set for the Bioware BG2 game for a level one party starting in the dungeon (needing XP and gold first to be able to care for Imoen). In EET we have the (fallen) heroes of Baldur's Gate and Dragonspear.

 

Since the situation is created by the base EET installation, my argument is that EET should be a stand-alone playable mod - not requiring the user to use a handbook/guidance tthat tells him to install some extra tweaks and mods to get a meaningful game in the end.

 

EET by pure definition and scope is NOT vanilla, so an argument to say *keep it vanilla* makes little sense. The vanilla BG2EE is there, for anyone who wants to play this and it is not EET.

 

Anyway - I already coded and tested the applicable solution, so it is no issue for me anymore.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Roxanne

[Jarno Mikkola]

EET by pure definition and scope is NOT vanilla, so an argument to say *keep it vanilla* makes little sense.

Yeah, but you can "keep it as close to the vanilla experience as possible", without making unrequited changes that will make mods such as SCS incompatible with it. As it's a mod that was not made for BG2EE... in case you didn't notice and now required patching for it to be even that.

[K4thos]

Since the situation is created by the base EET installation, my argument is that EET should be a stand-alone playable mod - not requiring the user to use a handbook/guidance tthat tells him to install some extra tweaks and mods to get a meaningful game in the end.

 

 

I agree with this statement although not sure if I understand the whole problem. You loose all of the money at the start of SoA. So the only way to travel to Spellhold is either doing quests in BG2 areas (which will take exactly the same amount of this as doing it in vanilla BG2:EE) or going back to old BG1/SoD areas to do unfinished quests there and pick up some previously left out valuable items to sell them (in the latter case it's a player's decision to speed up the length of Chapter 14 that could be warranted from the role-playing perspective).

 

Without any item/tweak etc mods by just selling a few items found in the dungeon, first promenade visit and doing slum slaver quests, I already have enough gold to potentially finish chapter 14. (I was only at promenade, slums and docks so far). This is almost vanilla contents and still I could already go to Spellhold.

 

but exactly the same is true for vanilla BG2:EE. Shouldn't it be a feature request to Beamdog than?

Edited September 7, 2016 by K4thos

[Roxanne]

 

Since the situation is created by the base EET installation, my argument is that EET should be a stand-alone playable mod - not requiring the user to use a handbook/guidance tthat tells him to install some extra tweaks and mods to get a meaningful game in the end.

 

 

I agree with this statement although not sure if I understand the whole problem. You loose all of the money at the start of SoA. So the only way to travel to Spellhold is either doing quests in BG2 areas (which will take exactly the same amount of this as doing it in vanilla BG2:EE) or going back to old BG1/SoD areas to do unfinished quests there and pick up some previously left out valuable items to sell them (in the latter case it's a player's decision to speed up the length of Chapter 14 that could be warranted from the role-playing perspective).

 

Without any item/tweak etc mods by just selling a few items found in the dungeon, first promenade visit and doing slum slaver quests, I already have enough gold to potentially finish chapter 14. (I was only at promenade, slums and docks so far). This is almost vanilla contents and still I could already go to Spellhold.

 

but exactly the same is true for vanilla BG2:EE. Shouldn't it be a feature request to Beamdog than?

 

I have implemented this very simple solution (in Baldur.bcs) that is independent/compatible with any other thing done by mod or bean dogs.

IF

PartyGoldGT(129999)

Global("BodiAppear","GLOBAL",7) //This delays Valen and Brus until you have 130k gold - it is set in last SoD area thus it only applies for games when you did the transition from BG1/SoD

THEN

RESPONSE #100

SetGlobal("BodiAppear","GLOBAL",0) //This restores the original vanilla condition

END

 

As an extra I will mod Gaelan dialog to say 20k if Global("BodiAppear","GLOBAL",0) and 150k if Global("BodiAppear","GLOBAL",7).

[subtledoctor]

Wait, you want to change the cost to $130k by default?? I was all set to agree with Roxanne, because I thought EET wasn't taking your money away in CI. (Why would Itenicus let you keep any money?)

 

But as long as you start SoA with no money, that's fine. EET should not change anything.

 

Now, I actually love Roxanne's idea - have Garlan set a super-high price initially, let Charname troop out into the countryside to raise funds, and then when the guild war heats up and Bodhi makes herself known, he gets desperate and offers you a lower price? And presumably you pay the difference with your service.

 

That's *genius.* But, it's genius that should go in EETweaks.

[K4thos]

because I thought EET wasn't taking your money away in CI

 

all your items and money are taken from you in Irenicus Dungeon in EET. Optionally you will be able to install EET_Tweaks component that moves items to Illych's chest within the dungeon, but that's a tweak and not something that players will experience by default.

Edited September 7, 2016 by K4thos

[Roxanne]

 

because I thought EET wasn't taking your money away in CI

 

all your items and money are taken from you in Irenicus Dungeon in EET. Optionally you will be able to install EET_Tweaks component that moves items to Illych's chest within the dungeon, but that's a tweak and not something that players will experience by default.

 

Maybe the real issue was not communicated well enough. Money and items are no longer an issue with EET, you get plenty of it in no time even if you have 0gp at CI start. In vanilla, the money for Imoen was a real challenge - it is not in EET.

However, chapter 14 is and was the mayor part in SoA - it is where you meet old and new companions, start friendships/romances, have additional mod-added quests etc. Many relations (including the vanilla romances) must reach some status before you set off for Spellhold. Now, like I tried to illustrate in my example, you can reduce this to an hour of real time gameplay and then Valen turns up.

The problem with it is that from this point on you need to do some meta-gaming to avoid certain encounters or areas (even more if you have Alternatives-like mods installed), e.g the gaveyard area is blocked since you would face Bodhi and you MUST decide for one side or other (i.e. any mod using graveyard area would be blocked)....just some examples, there is much more - this chapter always was modder's paradise and playground and should be explored in days/weeks not just one or two hours.

[argent77]

Your arguments about getting money too quickly are based on the assumption that mods have been added on top of EET. In vanilla EET you are in the same situation as when you start a vanilla BG2 game (unless you metagame and prepare beforehand). You have to do at least Nalia's quest or some odd jobs to earn some money.

If you install mods that allow you to gain money much faster then it's also no problem to install a tweak that increases the amount of money needed for the Shadow Thieves. I still believe that EET should not change the vanilla storyline without very good reasons, especially if it involves personal opinions about how to improve gameplay. There will always be at least one player having a different view.