My new "Made in Heaven" mods

[Greenhorn]

9 minutes ago, Angel said:

Anything that doesn't have alt dice set will just use the base dice regardless of creature BIT13.  I checked this with one of our engine hackers (forgot who, sorry) and tested it myself.  They are completely separate fields in the item file so anything that alters base weapon damage does exactly nothing to alt weapon damage.

Thanks! 

[Quester]

Hi Angel,

I noticed there are a few spells in the divine_spell_list.txt that are not described in the readme, namely: Protection from Cold, Hallow, Unhallow, Ice Storm, Aura of Vitality. Are these fully implemented and working in game?

Also, it would be cool if you could make a readme with the descriptions of the 'restored' spells as well. I'm trying to add the spells from your mod to the appropriate spheres from subtledoctor's Faiths & Pantheons, but I'm lacking some info like which level they are, etc.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Quester

[subtledoctor]

On 4/16/2022 at 1:56 PM, Angel said:

Currently the alternative base damage dice against large creatures are:

• two-handed sword: 3d6
• bastard sword: 2d8
• sling bullet: 1d6+1
• club: 1d3
• dagger: 1d3
• dart: 1d2
• flail: 2d4
• halberd: 2d6
• hammer: 1d4
• long sword: 1d12
• mace: 1d6
• morning star: 1d6+1
• short sword: 1d8
• spear: 1d8

These are directly from the 2e PHB.

What is this sorcery??

EDIT - wow, is that the "alternate dice size" and  "alternate # dice thrown" and "alternate damage bonus" in NI? I never knew how those worked.

Edited April 19, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Awachi]

@subtledoctor

[subtledoctor]

Btw I'm curious how the spellpacks are installed. Some of the spells in them are duplicates of spells in Spell Revisions and IWDification. (E.g. Faerie Fire). I know that with SR and IWDification, they will defer to a spell that already exists, so whichever version you install first is the one you get. Does MiH work the same way?

[Graion Dilach]

Faerie Fire isn't in IWDification and this spellpack is designed with the vanilla system in mind.

[subtledoctor]

That... doesn’t answer the question?

People are going to install this alongside other spell-adding mods. And, modders being modders, there are going to be overlaps. (There already are.) I’m just trying to get a sense of how things work together. 

[Graion Dilach]

Only SR has an overlap with MiH (I don't count SoD2BG2IU because that shouldn't even have spells to begin with IMO and the monster summoning spell revamps are tweak components afterall) and last I checked SR already introduced duplicates of IWD spells gladly ignoring IWDification. MiH's restorations use the IDS names from the vanilia game/SoD. It can't have any control on what arbitrary stuff SR does. You're asking the wrong project for a better answer.

[Angel]

On 4/19/2022 at 6:34 PM, Quester said:

Hi Angel,

I noticed there are a few spells in the divine_spell_list.txt that are not described in the readme, namely: Protection from Cold, Hallow, Unhallow, Ice Storm, Aura of Vitality. Are these fully implemented and working in game?

Yeah, I'm lazy when it comes to updating readmes.  They should all work, but I haven't tested them very thoroughly yet.

13 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Btw I'm curious how the spellpacks are installed. Some of the spells in them are duplicates of spells in Spell Revisions and IWDification. (E.g. Faerie Fire). I know that with SR and IWDification, they will defer to a spell that already exists, so whichever version you install first is the one you get. Does MiH work the same way?

No, currently it will install its own version whether a spell already exists or not (it will reuse existing spell.ids entries though).  I plan to have an option in the .ini file for that, but I haven't gotten to it yet.  Note that I explicitly do not support using my spell mod in combination with SR, if you do you're on your own.

6 hours ago, Graion Dilach said:

Faerie Fire isn't in IWDification and this spellpack is designed with the vanilla system in mind.

This is correct.  Faerie Fire does exist, dummied out, in BG1EE/SoD though.  It's more of a restoration than a new spell unless you use oBG2.

4 hours ago, Graion Dilach said:

Only SR has an overlap with MiH (I don't count SoD2BG2IU because that shouldn't even have spells to begin with IMO and the monster summoning spell revamps are tweak components afterall) and last I checked SR already introduced duplicates of IWD spells gladly ignoring IWDification. MiH's restorations use the IDS names from the vanilia game/SoD. It can't have any control on what arbitrary stuff SR does. You're asking the wrong project for a better answer.

Correct, as noted above, I explicitly do not support using my spell mods with SR.  I do many of the things SR also does, but I wanted to do them my way, so installing the both probably is going to lead to some trouble.  While I will probably attempt to fix any issues if people ask nicely and I can reasonably do so, it won't be high priority for me.

[Greenhorn]

5 hours ago, Graion Dilach said:

Only SR has an overlap with MiH (I don't count SoD2BG2IU because that shouldn't even have spells to begin with IMO and the monster summoning spell revamps are tweak components afterall) and last I checked SR already introduced duplicates of IWD spells gladly ignoring IWDification. MiH's restorations use the IDS names from the vanilia game/SoD. It can't have any control on what arbitrary stuff SR does. You're asking the wrong project for a better answer.

I know for fact that Dark side of the Sword Coast has Faerie fire ( and others beside) spell. But pardon my ignorance what is SoD2BG2IU? SoD to BG2EE Item Upgrade most probably? 

[Graion Dilach]

Yes, I keep forgetting the DSotSC spells because 90% of them are IWD ports which also break against IWDification (which is why I also phased them out from my installs). CtB also has this issue but it's spells aren't even a separate component there. You're correct on my abbreviation.

The bottom point is that MiH complements vanilla+IWDification and assumed agaisnt that setup.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Graion Dilach

[Greenhorn]

14 minutes ago, Graion Dilach said:

Yes, I keep forgetting the DSotSC spells because 90% of them are IWD ports which also break against IWDification (which is why I also phased them out from my installs). CtB also has this issue but it's spells aren't even a separate component there. You're correct on my abbreviation.

The bottom point is that MiH complements vanilla+IWDification and assumed agaisnt that setup.

Thanks. I think that Darkest day also has bunch of spells without separate component like CtB. Just one quick observation from me though, I'm not 100% sure but I recall that with both DSotSC and IWDification on my last TUTU install  Jaheira only had one Faerie Fire spell available( with some other level 1 priest spells from DSotSC) which means that IWDification is compatible with it and either rewrite DSotSC with it's own or skip it altogether if detects similar spell. 

[Greenhorn]

2 minutes ago, Greenhorn said:

Thanks. I think that Darkest day also has bunch of spells without separate component like CtB. Just one quick observation from me though, I'm not 100% sure but I recall that with both DSotSC and IWDification on my last TUTU install  Jaheira only had one Faerie Fire spell available( with some other level 1 priest spells from DSotSC) which means that IWDification is compatible with it and either rewrite DSotSC with it's own or skip it altogether if detects similar spell. 

Oh, FF is not in IWDification?!

[subtledoctor]

39 minutes ago, Greenhorn said:

but I recall that with both DSotSC and IWDification on my last TUTU install  Jaheira only had one Faerie Fire spell available( with some other level 1 priest spells from DSotSC) which means that IWDification is compatible with it and either rewrite DSotSC with it's own or skip it altogether if detects similar spell.

IWDification will skip installing the spell if it is already present in SPELL.IDS. So will SR. This is how the player can have some control over overlapping spells - install SR first and you keep the SR versions if stuff like Sunscorch, Cure Moderate Wounds, etc. Install IWDification first, and you keep that version. (I don’t know if CtB/TDD/DSotSC are deferential in this way... this is one reason I never use those mods.) 

Faiths & Powers makes this explicit when installing overlapping spells:

ACTION_IF !(FILE_CONTAINS_EVALUATED(~spell.ids~ ~CLERIC_SUNSCORCH~)) BEGIN
	...[install Sunscorch] 

1 hour ago, Angel said:

Correct, as noted above, I explicitly do not support using my spell mods with SR.  I do many of the things SR also does, but I wanted to do them my way, so installing the both probably is going to lead to some trouble.

I mean, if people want more spells they will install both, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that urge, in the abstract. I don’t think there are any technical or philosophical problems combining them, except that SR’s “Update NPC Spellbooks” won’t add MiH-exclusive spells - which is to be expected. The biggest problem that I can see is the simple one that users can’t exercise control over which version goes into their game. Which is why I ask. 

FWIW the simpler goal of giving players control over their install seems more important, to me, than worrying about inter-mod compatibility at a more technical level. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Graion Dilach]

DSotSC(-BGT/EET atleast) and CtB introduces duplicates in the IDS, the overlap is only partial and mostly accidental IIRC. It's on my to-do list to look at them and normalize them to use IWDification entries where possible, I just haven't got there to sit down and review those mods.

Yes, @Greenhorn Faerie Fire isn't in IWDification. It's only in DSotSC though. The level 2 cure spells where the duplication is the most visible.