Back for another playthrough

[jastey]

Ah, ok. No idea what would cause this, sorry.

[Caedwyr]

The mods that changed between this and the previous install were the following

Updated:

Recorder from v 1.34 to 1.35
Skie, the Cost of One Girl's Soul from v 3.2 to 3.3
Will of the Wisps from v1.5 to 1.6
The Beaurin Legacy v3.6 to v3.6.1
Isra NPC v3.1 to 3.2
Varshoon NPC v6.1 to 6.4

Somehow these changes or a corruption caused by my mod installation caused the chapter to get stuck on "The Black Pits" in my journal and entries are not been listed as quests (in progress or complete). This persists between the prologue in Candlekeep and Chapter 1 all the way to when I arrive at the Friendly Arm Inn.

@Lava, @jmaeq, @Gwendolyne, @Skitia

I'll also post this in applicable threads over on the Beamdog forums.  I don't have access to the other forum sites sadly.

I'll try doing a test install later with just these mods and see which one is causing the problem.

EET install.  Attached Weidu.log and Weidu-BGEE.log for completeness.

WeiDU.log WeiDU-BGEE.log

Edited July 24, 2020 by Caedwyr

[Gwendolyne]

Nothing has been modified in Isra v3.2 except solving the Valerie banters component install issue with EET games.

[Caedwyr]

Yeah, I think I even used my personally modified version with your test .tp2 file for my install that was also in the previous install where the journal worked, so I should be able to cross Isra v3.2 off the list.

[jmaeq]

The only change from v3.6 to v3.6.1 for The Beaurin Legacy was the removal of one interjection in BGII: SoA, so as to let the PC receive the Shadow Thief Cellar Key and to let Minyae be in the party when receiving the experience points. I don't think that would cause any further issues... I would hope it wouldn't.

[Caedwyr]

6 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

The mods that changed between this and the previous install were the following

Updated:

Recorder from v 1.34 to 1.35
Skie, the Cost of One Girl's Soul from v 3.2 to 3.3
Will of the Wisps from v1.5 to 1.6
The Beaurin Legacy v3.6 to v3.6.1
Isra NPC v3.1 to 3.2
Varshoon NPC v6.1 to 6.4

Somehow these changes or a corruption caused by my mod installation caused the chapter to get stuck on "The Black Pits" in my journal and entries are not been listed as quests (in progress or complete). This persists between the prologue in Candlekeep and Chapter 1 all the way to when I arrive at the Friendly Arm Inn.

@Lava, @jmaeq, @Gwendolyne, @Skitia

I'll also post this in applicable threads over on the Beamdog forums.  I don't have access to the other forum sites sadly.

I'll try doing a test install later with just these mods and see which one is causing the problem.

EET install.  Attached Weidu.log and Weidu-BGEE.log for completeness.

WeiDU.log WeiDU-BGEE.log

I tested all of these mods and none of them were the culprit.

[Caedwyr]

Other random things.

1. Berserker from the artisan's kitpack.

• In game kit description is the basic Berserker kit description and not the Artisan Kitpack version, however the abilities are given out at appropriate levels.  Kit description during character creation is correct.
• Did not get the "check for wild talent innate" @subtledoctor

2. Arcane Archer from the artisan's kitpack

• The SCS Ease of Use AI script causes the character to repeatedly switch to a melee weapon from a bow when walking around not in combat. @DavidW

3. Scales of Balance Weapon Styles.  It would be helpful if these made it explicitly clear if ranged weapons benefit from any of the styles, and even if you don't list the negatives list  the cases in which ranged weapons might gain benefit from the styles (throwing daggers, darts, throwing hammers for example).  I can't recall the behaviour in the base game, but I can see the current descriptions confusing less experienced players.

4. Kensai from the artisan's kitpack

• In game description is the basic Kensai kit description and not the Artisan's Kitpack version, however the abilities are given out at appropriate levels.  Kit description during character creation is correct.
• I believe there are undocumented HLAs: Improved Ki Critical, Devastating Critical, Overwhelming Critical, Second Wind.  I and probably others would appreciate including these in the readme since it helps the user identify possible compatibility issues.
• Improved Ki Critical requires Power attack, but the description doesn't list the prerequisite
• Second Wind requires Overwhelming Critical but doesn't list the prerequisite.
• Devastating Critical requires Second Wind, but doesn't list the prerequisite.
• Smite Requires Improved Ki Critical, but lists Critical Strike in the prerequisite.
• A cool thing is that the Refinements HLA stack with the Artisan Kitpack HLAs so you also get True Kai as well if you install Refinements after Artisan's Kitpack.  I like this!
• Improved Critical is not able to be selected, but shows up on the list.  It requires Critical Strike which is no longer part of the HLA list (it appears Improved Ki Critical replaces this).  This appears to be an interaction between Artisan's Kitpack and Refinements.  I'd love it if Refinements accounted for this if it was installed (ideally by allowing Improved ki Critical to act as a prerequisite, or removing Improved Critical from the list)

5. Vanguard from the Artisan's Kitpack

• Gets 2 charges of "check for wild talent" innate.  This is just cosmetic because both disappear once used.

6. Dragon Disciple from the Artisan's Kitpack

• In game description is the base game description and not the Artisan's Kitpack description.  The correct description is shown during character creation
• The level 15 stat bonus to constitution shows up in green in the character record window, like a bonus from an item and not an innate state increase.
• It appears that the revised kit and refinements overlap, giving the Dragon Disciple all the base sorcerer HLAs as well as all the Refinements sorcerer HLAs.  A cleaner approach would be to give the kit its own set of HLAs, but it appears as though some changes might need to be made to Refinements since this kit shares a name with a base game kit.

7. The Tome & Blood innate to summon a familiar

• Does not have any text showing the familiar names during the selection screen and the pop-up tooltips doesn't show anything either.  Text does show if you right click on a selection, but not if you left click.
• The find familiar spell is still selectable at character creation and level up for a sorcerer (Dragon Disciple).  I think if it is turned into an innate it should probably be removed. 
• Speaking to the familiar (Psuedo-dragon) and asking if it if has any advice gets a "NO VALID REPLIES OR LINKS" error.
• Asking it if "everything is okay down there" gets a response of "I am a little hurt and the cuts sting and I am bleeding" when the familiar shows as uninjured.  Note that this is after I spoke to it and put it in my bag then released it.
• The summon familiar innate is back after resting.  Casting it again does not appear to do anything and you only get a message that you already have a familiar.
• The familiar icons for the ferret, black cat, and rabbit are all summon monster icons.  Consider using a recoloured Cat's grace icon for the cat, The Summon Weasel icon from Lava's Weasels! mod for the Ferret, and
• The

8. The Tome & Blood Arcane Crafting is obtained by the Dragon Disciple at level 5.  This isn't a bug but the readme indicates that only Wizards gain the skill and Mages get it at level 1 or 2.  They get the Brew Potion variant.  Xzar got the scribe scrolls variant.  If different classes get different variants, this should probably be listed in the documentation.

9. Tome & Blood Innate Spell Sequencers component doesn't catch "minor spell matrix" or adds Minor Spell Matrix to the list of spells that Sorcerers can learn on level up, when I believe it should be listed as an innate ability (this is with "Innate Metamagic (Spell Sequencers and Contingencies) - 3rd option" selected at install time.  Contingency also shows up in the spells you can choose at level up.

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Caedwyr

[subtledoctor]

8 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

Berserker from the artisan's kitpack ... Did not get the "check for wild talent innate"

Weird... did you install the Berserker before psionics?

8 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

It appears that the revised [DD] and refinements overlap, giving the Dragon Disciple all the base sorcerer HLAs as well as all the Refinements sorcerer HLAs.

Huh. I’ll take a look at Refinements, it might need an adjustment. 

8 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

The Tome & Blood innate to summon a familiar ... Does not have any text showing the familiar names during the selection screen and the pop-up tooltips doesn't show anything either.  Text does show if you right click on a selection, but not if you left click.

Actually it does, normally. It uses Kjeron’s spell-learning UI, which I believe uses the spellbook. Or maybe the Sequencer choice screen? I forget. It looks like the spell memorization process in the spellbook to me. Anyway, in the vanilla game the descriptions are visible whenever you left-click on a spell or ability (or familiar). But for some reason, every sinhle UI mid I’ve seen hides the description behind a right-click. Why? I don't know. It seems to me that this hurts readability and ease of use,  especially with most people using bigger screens which have plenty of real estate for the descriptions. But the tl;dr is, it’s because of the UI mod you chose. I am powerless to do anything about that. 

9 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

The summon familiar innate is back after resting.  Casting it again does not appear to do anything and you only get a message that you already have a familiar.

Yeah, you need to keep the innate since, if your familiar dies, that is the only way to re-summon one. (This is one reason I personally don’t use this component, I’d rather cast it from scrolls or spellbook, and keep my innates bar clean.)

9 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

The find familiar spell is still selectable at character creation and level up for a sorcerer (Dragon Disciple). 

I’ll look into it, it might be another mod interacting with it? Or possibly an oversight. I thought TnB is putting it into hidespl.2da...

9 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

The familiar icons for the ferret, black cat, and rabbit are all summon monster icons.  Consider using a recoloured Cat's grace icon for the cat, The Summon Weasel icon from Lava's Weasels! mod for the Ferret, and

Good idea about using the IWD Cat’s Grace icon. As for the weasel icon, I would need permission from @Lava before I could do that. 

9 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

Speaking to the familiar

TBH I don’t know much about how these conversations go. (They always seemed kinda dumb to me - a) why do familiars talk? and b) why do they say the same thing over and over?) I did some basic testing and it looked okay; but even if there is a problem, I’m not sure I could fix it. 

9 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

Tome & Blood Innate Spell Sequencers component doesn't catch "minor spell matrix" or adds Minor Spell Matrix to the list of spells that Sorcerers can learn on level up, when I believe it should be listed as an innate ability (this is with "Innate Metamagic (Spell Sequencers and Contingencies) - 3rd option"

Maaaybe is intentional? I might have made sorcerers choose sequencers as spells, for balance reasons. I honestly forget. If this is the case, then it will become innate and be removed from your spellbook once you cast it. 

[Guest Guest]

Subtledoctor, what about adding an optional tweak to substitute planetars?

[subtledoctor]

Working on it.  I will have something ready by the time I get to HLA levels in my current game (  ). But I am currently only 11th level...

I still don’t know what would be a good replacement. I think SCS perforce uses the same ability that is in players’ HLA tables; so while I like the idea of elementals (greater/prince) as a replacement, I would ideally give players a choice of which element, whereas AI mages could not handle such a thing.

Iron Golem is another option; it would only be kind of boring. (And step on the toes of TnB Revised Specialists, which makes that a special Transmuter ability.)

Maybe a balor? It was always weird to me that a 9th-level spell lets you summon the most powerful kind of fiend, and then they added HLAs and now there is no kind of possible HLA-level fiend summoning. But balors are more powerful than pit fiends, so they could work. 

Also maybe it could be a “Summon Fiendish Horde” spell, summoning like 2-5 fiends in one go.

Going further afield, I could see wizard summoning a powerful genie in this circumstance. I never liked the genie-summoning spells in the mid levels... maybe buff them suitably and make them HLA-level genie princes?

[Guest Guest]

Balor treated as a better version of gate. But.. would he beat a planetar ? Go for lesser demon lord (just kidding.. maybe not)

 I do not like the iron golem idea - it also clashes thematically with the mod by argent77 that adds golem. 

 

The genie idea is a very good one, but I feel like that summoning such an entity would have a high cost. Doubt very much a genie would join a mage for "nothing". I always saw them as creatures that try to come on top in every event, and that would include I dont see them helping charname for free

[Caedwyr]

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Weird... did you install the Berserker before psionics?

Nope, Artisan Kitpack Berserker revision was installed about 10 mods before Will to Power.

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Huh. I’ll take a look at Refinements, it might need an adjustment.

I think this type of overlap is going to happen for all of the base game kit revisions in Artisan's Kitpack or any other mod.  I had thought that Refinements was coded to overwrite other mod HLAs, but it might have been changed when you did your update.  While I do like some of the blending in the particular case of the Kensai (with a bit of tidying up of prerequisites), the cleaner approach would just be to have Refinements overwrite whatever was there.  I don't expect a lot of complaints since Artisan's Kitpack doesn't document any of the HLA changes.  The more elegant approach would be to work with the other kit creators to figure out how they'd like to blend the two sets of HLAs, but I can understand not taking this approach and from what I remember TGMaestro and Littiz probably would have just said to install Refinements or the other kit mod later depending on which one you wanted the HLAs from.  Then again, they did work pretty closely with aVENGER and borrowed a bunch of his work for the Thief and Bard HLAs.

This also happened for the Dragon Disciple and I am expecting to see it for the Blackguard and Assassin kits from the same mod.

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Quote

The Tome & Blood innate to summon a familiar ... Does not have any text showing the familiar names during the selection screen and the pop-up tooltips doesn't show anything either.  Text does show if you right click on a selection, but not if you left click.

 

Actually it does, normally. It uses Kjeron’s spell-learning UI, which I believe uses the spellbook. Or maybe the Sequencer choice screen? I forget. It looks like the spell memorization process in the spellbook to me. Anyway, in the vanilla game the descriptions are visible whenever you left-click on a spell or ability (or familiar). But for some reason, every single UI mid I’ve seen hides the description behind a right-click. Why? I don't know. It seems to me that this hurts readability and ease of use,  especially with most people using bigger screens which have plenty of real estate for the descriptions. But the tl;dr is, it’s because of the UI mod you chose. I am powerless to do anything about that.

@lefreut I guess this one is over to you since I'm using LEUI.  I understand the right click behaviour, since the regular spell selection menu also has this option, but I think it would be best to also show text for what you've selected with left click (like the spell selection menu at level up) since the current behaviour comes across as buggy.  Having the hover tooltips would also be an expected feature.  Just a couple of things I think would up the polish on the UI mod.

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Yeah, you need to keep the innate since, if your familiar dies, that is the only way to re-summon one. (This is one reason I personally don’t use this component, I’d rather cast it from scrolls or spellbook, and keep my innates bar clean.)

I thought this might be the case.  Is it intended that you can choose a different familiar if one dies, or is the selection supposed to be fixed?  If it is meant to only resummon the same one, then my suggestion is to give a different ability called "raise familiar".  Another low effort option is to just mention this in the documentation.

Regarding Familiar dialogue, I'm not convinced that this is caused by your mod. Some more testing is called for.

3 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Quote

Tome & Blood Innate Spell Sequencers component doesn't catch "minor spell matrix" or adds Minor Spell Matrix to the list of spells that Sorcerers can learn on level up, when I believe it should be listed as an innate ability (this is with "Innate Metamagic (Spell Sequencers and Contingencies) - 3rd option"

Maaaybe is intentional? I might have made sorcerers choose sequencers as spells, for balance reasons. I honestly forget. If this is the case, then it will become innate and be removed from your spellbook once you cast it. 

For reference I chose the bolded option.  The sequencers and contingencies went to the spell menu and not to the innate section.  It didn't appear as though the component did anything.

Quote

// 50: INNATE METAMAGIC (Subtledoctor)
// 51: innate metamagic, learned automatically by everyone
// 52: innate metamagic, learned automatically (none for sorcerers)
// 53: innate metamagic, learned from scrolls or in CharGen
// 54: innate metamagic, learned from scrolls only (none for sorcerers)
// 55: metamagic spells, no cost to fill (compatible with multi sorcerers)

 

[Lava]

4 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

Good idea about using the IWD Cat’s Grace icon. As for the weasel icon, I would need permission from @Lava before I could do that. 

Sorry, but no. I made that icon because I hate reused spell icons in mods. I may try and think how to design few icons like that, but it depends when should that happen and how many are needed. Also, it may depend on which versions are needed (only on-stone, or also on parchment and with no background for spell book?)

@subtledoctor - when you have a moment, you can sent me a PM with answers to that, we could discuss creating icons for familiars.

 

[Caedwyr]

More stuff.

1. Dark Hunter Ranger kit from the Artisan's Kitpack

• Did not get the Poison Weapon ability at any level up to 21.  Does not appear to be a passive ability either based on me slaughtering all of Candlekeep and never seeing any poison checks or poisoning any of the opponents.
• The Set Snare ability description in the kit has the following line

• Quote

  1st Level: Deals 2d8+5 missile damage.

  This should be "3rd Level: Deals 2d8+5 missile damage" since the set snare ability is gained at level 3.

• In the level up dialogue box at level 10 it says "gains level 1 priest spell" even though it doesn't actually due to kit restrictions.  I'm not sure if there is any way to suppress this message.

• The Quickstride ability that was correctly given to this ranger kit says "allows the rogue to move more quickly".  I'd suggest adjusting the wording so it says "ranger" or whatever the base class is. @subtledoctor.

• The kit receives all the expected HLAs from Refinements for the Trueclass Ranger.  Working as intended!

2. The timer for the idle/bored sound to play is extremely short (a couple of seconds) and it replays over and over again very frequently.  I don't have any mods that change this as far as I know, so I suspect this is base game behaviour @CamDawg. This seems to go away once  you go in and out of the inn at the start of the game.

3. The Weapon Proficiency Overhaul dialogue box for the additional proficiency innate selection for Bows shows "

This should say "Advance to Mastery (+++) with Bows"

[subtledoctor]

2 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

Is it intended that you can choose a different familiar if one dies, or is the selection supposed to be fixed

Yeah, once you choose a familiar the first time, you will be bound to re-summon the same one. But the sane actual spell is used in both instances, so I can’t rename it the 2nd time around. (It was fairly complicated to make that work, and I don’t want to mess with it.)

2 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

For reference I chose [53: innate metamagic, learned from scrolls or in CharGen].  The sequencers and contingencies went to the spell menu and not to the innate section.  It didn't appear as though the component did anything.

Did you actually learn/cast the spell? The nature of learning it from scrolls is, you have to learn it and then cast it, and then it will be innate. (I think. Probably to make sure you can’t add it to your innate abilities until the appropriate level.) I know I’ve refined this recently, but I never use that option because only option 5 works with multiclass sorcerers, MnG bards, and my Arcanist kit. So I don’t precisely recall the current specific usage. But it might have been working and you just didn’t realize it  (Which I admit is not ideal.)

1 hour ago, Caedwyr said:

The Quickstride ability that was correctly given to this ranger kit says "allows the rogue to move more quickly".  I'd suggest adjusting the wording so it says "ranger"

Good catch. The ability came from my former “rogue feats” but now it is a general feat, so I need to make the text more general too. 

1 hour ago, Lava said:

Sorry, but no. I made that icon because I hate reused spell icons in mods.

That’s fine. My ability to make new icons is limited to what I can do in NI: flipping, rotating, and recoloring pre-existing ones. This is quite limiting. 

Frankly it’s kind of silly to have icons here at all - it’s for a selection screen that you will only ever see once. Maybe it should just be in a dialogue (that would stop UI mods hiding the text, too). Or maybe I can use the “animal-in-inventory” icons instead of spell icons. (I don’t recall whether the rat and ferret are currently using different inventory icons.)

2 hours ago, Caedwyr said:

had thought that Refinements was coded to overwrite other mod HLAs, but it might have been changed when you did your update

Refinements no longer overwrites anything. It adds and removes HLAs dynamically to each table, with my Add_HLA and Remove_HLA functions. How it handles mod kits is a fairly late addition to the mod; It’s very possible it needs to do some more removing. Or, if you’re talking about those mod kits having some custom HLAs that mimic or conceptually overlap with Refinements, then yes it will need code specific to that mod. But that too could be easy - just a few more “Remove_HLA” function calls; if the mod is there the overlap will be removed; if the mod is not there then nothing will happen. Any specifics you can give about which HLAs overlap would make it easier. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by subtledoctor