BBoD (and maybe other magical weapons) seem to ignore dual wielding

[subtledoctor]

On 5/27/2022 at 9:25 AM, Bartimaeus said:

I believe you can just change the item type and proficiency so they're not counted as not being weapons at all - the character will still use them as a weapon since it's in the slot with a valid weapon extended header, but proficiencies won't come into play.

Yeah but I'm not talking about the weapon proficiency, I just mean that if you equip any weapon without the '2-handed' flag and you don't have a shield, you will automatically get the bonus (if any!) for SWS. Hold a shield, and you'll automatically get the bonus (if any) from SnS style. Set the '2-handed' flag and you'll automatically get the bonus for THS. There is no way (to my knowledge) to set up a weapon that does not trigger some weapon style.

On 5/27/2022 at 9:38 AM, Luke said:

So yes, as you can see, it is possible to override Chargen proficiencies.

I didn't mean can it override the caster's proficiencies, I meant that, as stated above, there's no way for a weapon on its own to avoid triggering some kind of weapon style bonus. (The weird exception is evidently that MISC19 slot DW->SWS thing.)

Honestly I always thought BBOD created a two-handed sword!    Dual-wielding with that thing seems kind of cheesy...

Edited November 6, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Luke]

15 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

I just mean that if you equip any weapon without the '2-handed' flag and you don't have a shield, you will automatically get the bonus (if any!) for SWS. Hold a shield, and you'll automatically get the bonus (if any) from SnS style. Set the '2-handed' flag and you'll automatically get the bonus for THS. There is no way (to my knowledge) to set up a weapon that does not trigger some weapon style.

Yeah, this is true. As of now

• you can disable Two-Weapon Style by setting either BIT7 or BIT13 to 1
• you can force Two-Handed Weapon Style by setting BIT1 to 1

It would be nice to have two other flags to disable Single-Weapon Style and Sword & Shield Style respectively...

@Bartimaeus At least on EE games, item category "hand-to-hand weapons" simply prevents the Inventory screen from displaying the various Weapon Styles bonuses (if any) – Aside from that, Weapon Styles bonuses work as normal...

[CamDawg]

BBoD's description states (emphasis mine):

Quote

 The caster is considered to be proficient to the point of Grand Mastery in this weapon.

If doing this via 233 is an issue, I'd suggest a simpler solution rather than a repeating EFF, spell, and UI tweaks: apply the GM bonuses directly to the weapon (+3 to-hit. +5 damage, lower speed by 3, and add +1APR for warrior classes). This works, AFAICT:

COPY_EXISTING ~blakblad.itm~ ~override~
  WRITE_BYTE 0x31 0 // change to zero to avoid non-prof penalties
  LPF ALTER_HEADER INT_VAR damage = 10 to_hit = 8 speed = 0 END // manually apply +5 damage, +3 to-hit, and -3 speed from GM
  PATCH_IF game_is_iwdee BEGIN SET apr = 7 END ELSE BEGIN SET apr = 1 END // +1.5 attacks on IWD, +1 otherwise
  LPF ALTER_EFFECT INT_VAR check_headers = 0 match_opcode = 233 opcode = 1 parameter1 = apr parameter2 = 0 special = 0 END // change set prof to +APR
  LPF CLONE_EFFECT INT_VAR check_headers = 0 match_opcode = 1 opcode = 318 parameter1 = 1 parameter2 = 105 STR_VAR insert = above resource = blakblad END // block APR effect from mages
  PATCH_FOR_EACH class IN 3 4 5 11 13 14 15 19 20 21 BEGIN // and then block APR from all of the other non-warrior classes, too
    LPF CLONE_EFFECT INT_VAR check_headers = 0 multi_match = 1 match_opcode = 318 parameter1 = class END
  END 

The only difference is cosmetic: instead of the inventory listing damage as 2d12+5 with another +5 from proficiency, it just lists damage as 2d12+10, with a similar issue for thac0. However, I'd put that as lesser issue to disabling UI elements.

Edited November 6, 2022 by CamDawg

[mickabouille]

Isn't this a bit awkward if a further mod changes grand mastery bonuses? (or maybe this is completely not a subject in scope for this mod?)

[CamDawg]

4 hours ago, mickabouille said:

Isn't this a bit awkward if a further mod changes grand mastery bonuses? (or maybe this is completely not a subject in scope for this mod?)

Yes, but it's trivial to account for it (or even revert it) downstream.

[Graion Dilach]

Ehh, this is a fix which I wouldn't hand over to Beamdog tbh. This should be fixed better with code.

[CamDawg]

Yes, ultimately it needs an engine fix. In the meantime, we can work around it somewhat.

[subtledoctor]

5 hours ago, CamDawg said:

Yes, but it's trivial to account for it (or even revert it) downstream.

I really don't love this idea. How many weapons set proficiencies for their own use? Should they all replicate the vanilla proficiency bonuses instead of setting proficiency? How can a mod changing the proficiency system account for all of this?

Frankly wouldn't it be easier to simply not claim to set the proficiency? Just say "attacks made with the BBoD are made with a +3 bonus to hit, a +5 bonus to damage and a -3 bonus to weapon speed. Warriors using the BBoD can attack three times power round with it." And set it to no proficiency instead of longsword proficiency. Just make the spell's bonuses proficiency-system-agnostic.

But setting the weapon to an unused proficiency, and applying 233 effects in that unusued proficiency, is IMHO a much more elegant solution...

Edited November 6, 2022 by subtledoctor

[CamDawg]

2 hours ago, subtledoctor said:

How many weapons set proficiencies for their own use?

The Black Blade of Disaster.

edit: To clarify, SoD Belhifet does apply a few (to scale it for difficulty) as does Wilson with his undroppable paw. Neither of these can cause this bug so we don't need to change them--BBoD is the only one we need to do this song-and-dance for.

Edited November 6, 2022 by CamDawg

[Luke]

On 11/6/2022 at 9:06 PM, CamDawg said:

BBoD is the only one we need to do this song-and-dance for.

As @subtledoctorsaid, in this specific case you might opt for

COPY_EXISTING "blakblad.itm" "override"
	WRITE_BYTE 0x31 IDS_OF_SYMBOL ("STATS" "EXTRAPROFICIENCY20")
	LPF ~ALTER_EFFECT~ INT_VAR ~check_headers~ = 0 ~match_opcode~ = 233 ~parameter2~ = IDS_OF_SYMBOL ("STATS" "EXTRAPROFICIENCY20") END
BUT_ONLY_IF_IT_CHANGES

As already said, that weapon stat is supposed to be unused...

In so doing, you do not need to worry about mods that change grand mastery bonuses...

Edited November 8, 2022 by Luke

[subtledoctor]

Of course you would need to worry about mods that use ExtraProf20…

[kjeron]

6 hours ago, Luke said:

As @subtledoctorsaid, in this specific case you might opt for

COPY_EXISTING "blakblad.itm" "override"
	WRITE_BYTE 0x31 IDS_OF_SYMBOL ("STATS" "EXTRAPROFICIENCY20")
	LPF ~ALTER_EFFECT~ INT_VAR ~check_headers~ = 0 ~match_opcode~ = 233 ~parameter2~ = IDS_OF_SYMBOL ("STATS" "EXTRAPROFICIENCY20") END
BUT_ONLY_IF_IT_CHANGES

As already said, that weapon stat is supposed to be unused...

In so doing, you do not need to worry about mods that change grand mastery bonuses...

That doesn't really help, as there are at least three different issues:

• using PROFICIENCY_LONGSWORD (or any in-use proficiency) causes conflicts with the character's existing proficiency.
• using any proficiency stat can lead to permanent adjustments if you level-up or dual-class while it's active.
• proficiency for the weapon is checked BEFORE the equipped effect gets applied, so you won't benefit from it as an equipped effect. (any change to the inventory will update it, but this shouldn't be required).  Putting the proficiency effect in the spell would get around this, but also apply it to any Longsword, which would not be correct. As equipped or spell-based, it will affect any off-hand longsword, which would be incorrect.

Simply put, the proficiency stats (their first 6 bits) aren't really designed for temporary alterations.

Putting the equivalent effects on the weapon, and setting the weapon's proficiency to NONE (so it cannot double-dip), is the only thing that really works in-game.  It may not be as mod-friendly, but that should not have a higher priority.  (Whether or not it should get the defunct speed bonus is questionable.)

Ideally, there would be an opcode, similar to op345, that could apply a specified (set or minimum) proficiency level to just the weapon it is attached to.

Edited November 8, 2022 by kjeron

[kjeron]

double-post

Edited November 8, 2022 by kjeron

[Andrea C.]

3 hours ago, kjeron said:

Ideally, there would be an opcode, similar to op345, that could apply a specified (set or minimum) proficiency level to just the weapon it is attached to.

Help us, @Bubb, you are our only hope

[CamDawg]

3 hours ago, kjeron said:

(Whether or not it should get the defunct speed bonus is questionable.)

Oh, dammit. This is like the 283rd time I've learned that the weapon speed bonuses from weapon pips don't work. One of these days I'll actually remember it for more than five minutes.