Mod Order/Feedback request

[jastey]

2 hours ago, Oloriniel said:

There are two Keto's in the Five Flagons.  Pretty sure there was only 1 earlier, before I talked to her.

Oh, that's a bug that was reported roughly 50 years ago. Seems it's not fixed.

[Graion Dilach]

On 9/5/2022 at 7:44 PM, jastey said:

Sounds like a mod is oberwriting it instead of patching, to be honest. Could you make a changelog on BIMOEN2.dlg?

And since you are in EET (?), I'm surprised you had no problms with Imoen's banters in the BG1 part? (Also, on a sidenote, I wasn't aware it would CTD if the banter response is missing, I thought the dialogue would just end. But maybe that's if the referenced dlg is not present, not if it's missing the according state. )

Apparently EET doesn't merge everything here - checking my BIMOEN(2)s shows that I have the BG1 banters in BIMOEN on my EET install. On the other hand, I'd suspect something else causing the issue - AllThingsMazzy doesn't mess up my own file and it starts with an order of Rasaad, Dorn, Hexxat, Will, Isra, Sirene...  basically I still have everyone I should have here (Eddard and Skie starts all their banters so I couldn't find theirs on the tree view, only in Edit view).

d:\Baldur's Gate - ProjectInfinity\Baldur's Gate II EET>weidu --log nul --change-log bimoen2.dlg
[weidu] WeiDU version 24900



Mods affecting BIMOEN2.DLG:
00000: /* created or unbiffed */ ~EET\EET.TP2~ 0 0 // EET core (resource importation)V13.4
00001:  ~IMOEN_FOREVER\IMOEN_FOREVER.TP2~ 0 0 // Imoen 4 Ever in BGII: Imoen Returns after Talking to Gaelan in Chapter 2v10
00002:  ~SKIECOST\SKIECOST.TP2~ 0 1 // Skie: The Cost of One Girl's Soul - Allow Skie to return as a joinable NPC4.2
00003:  ~SKIECOST\SKIECOST.TP2~ 0 3 // Skie: The Cost of One Girl's Soul - The Return of Eddard Silvershield (quest & a joinable NPC)4.2
00004:  ~WILLOWISP\WILLOWISP.TP2~ 0 0 // Will NPC, shaman stronghold and new shaman kit for BG2EE2.3
00005:  ~ISRA_BG2\ISRA_BG2.TP2~ 0 0 // Isra for BGIIv3.1
00006:  ~SIRENE_BG2\SIRENE_BG2.TP2~ 0 0 // Sirene NPC for BG2:EE
00007:  ~EVANDRA\SETUP-EVANDRA.TP2~ 0 0 // Evandra NPCv2.2
00008:  ~TYRISFLARE\SETUP-TYRISFLARE.TP2~ 0 0 // Tyris Flare NPCv9
00009:  ~AJANTISBG2\AJANTISBG2.TP2~ 1 0 // Sir Ajantis NPC for BGII20
00010:  ~C#SOLAUFEIN\C#SOLAUFEIN.TP2~ 1 0 // Solaufein's Rescue: Jastey's Solaufein NPC for BGII3.2
00011:  ~ALLTHINGSMAZZY\SETUP-ALLTHINGSMAZZY.TP2~ 0 0 // All Things MazzyVersion 3.07
00012:  ~IEPBANTERS\IEPBANTERS.TP2~ 0 0 // Extended NPC-NPC Interaction SoAv5.8
00013:  ~EET_END\EET_END.TP2~ 0 0 // EET end (last mod in install order)Standard installation

d:\Baldur's Gate - ProjectInfinity\Baldur's Gate II EET>

Without further testing, I'd suspect BG1NPCSoA or the Tortured Souls mods. BG1NPCSoA unfortunately have a fair amount of reports. Or Glam's NPCs, considering taht we allready found bugs in their EET setup.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Graion Dilach

[jastey]

21 minutes ago, Graion Dilach said:

On the other hand, I'd suspect something else causing the issue - AllThingsMazzy doesn't mess up my own file and it starts with an order of Rasaad, Dorn, Hexxat, Will, Isra, Sirene

Yes, I did not mean to blame it, it was a wild conclusion of what would make sense from the order of changelogs, but if the mod would do that then there would be more bug reports about it.

I had a look at BG1NPC in SoA&ToB and it also only adds a BIMOEN2.dlg if it doesn't exist already.

23 minutes ago, Graion Dilach said:

BG1NPCSoA unfortunately have a fair amount of reports.

Are the reports you remember in a mod related topic so Austin knows about them or are you aware of reports elsewhere we should draw his attention to?

[Graion Dilach]

I've always notified Austin when something came up, but yeah, I should go over my notes and whatnot to resummarize it all. The issues which come into my mind are the faulty IWD spell/scroll installations though (which i promised I'll take a try on... I really shoulda get back to things but haven't got back to pace since I started my new job this month). The reason I'd point before ATM anyway is because @Oloriniel confirmed a Yeslick banter... and Yeslick comes after a fair amount of mods. GlamNPC also includes a BIMOEN2 voiding, but that's for BGT, so doesn't seem that one either...

When the file was change-logged, it should have created revisions to the main folder, was there a revision where it decreased the filesize?

[subtledoctor]

On 9/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Oloriniel said:

From d5oelm.da:

Sorry, I meant the first vertical column, not the first row. There should be a bunch of rows whose left-most entry says "SPHERES" and then the next entry will be something like "AP_D5SPLif"

But I'm guessing that is not your problem. I assume your issue is that Cernd does not have the Faiths & Powers Elementalist kit, but rather the Artisan Kitpack Elementalist kit. And the AK kits do not support the FnP sphere system.

Even if the AK kits did have specific FnP support, in general they do not really support game-wide changes like sphere systems. For instance, I recall that some of the AK wizard kits get bonus spell slots for high INT scores as a special ability; but other mods like Scales of Balance give everybody bonus spell slots for high INT. The two mods utilize two completely different systems to implement that; the only way to balance it is to let the AK kits use its system and all the other kits use the SoB system. But even that isn't a great solution because that democratizes what was supposed to be a special feature of the AK kits.

As a more immediate example, (glancing at that mod's readme) The AK Elementalist gets this:

Quote

Advantages:
– +20% resistance to acid, cold, electrical and fire damage.
– +20% to acid, cold, electrical and fire damage dealt.
– Two arcane spells per spell level are added to repertoire, all the way up to the 7th level.

Giving a handful of wizard spells to the kit as priests spells is fairly meaningless in the presence of the sphere system, since the Elementalist would get access to the elemental spheres and the FnP elemental spheres already include most of the listed wizard spells. So the benefits of the kit would just be a little resistance, and a little bonus damage.

Faiths & Powers does have its own Elementalist kit, which is installed in your game. Its benefits are:

Quote

Advantages:

- May cast one extra spell per level.

- May control any elemental, at will (control lasts 1 turn).

- Once per day, may choose an "element of focus." This gives the Elementalist 15% resistance to damage from that element, and causes 15% extra damage from any spells using that damage type. These effects increase to 25% at 15th level, and 35% at 20th level.
- Focus access to the spheres of Earth, Water, Air, and Fire.

It's not exactly the same - you can only choose one element for bonuses at any given time - but probably close enough. Focus access is pretty awesome, it means you can cast 2nd-level elemental spells with 1st-level slots, and 3rd-level elemental spells with 2nd-level slots, etc. (I'm pretty sure that 'charm elemental' ability allows a save, just FYI.)

Immediate solutions for you: the most obvious one is to simply change Cernd to the FnP Elementalist kit instead of the AK version. I don't know if you have the facility to do that; you could do it with NPC_EE, SCS NPC Customization, or by manually editing the .CRE in Near Infinity. If you don't have NPC_EE or SCS Customization installed, it could be a bit tricky; installing NPC_EE after the Dual to Kit mod can mess with proficiencies. It can totally still be done, I'll just need to walk you through it a bit.

Alternatively, if you want to use the AK version of the Elementalist, you can copy all those 'SPHERES' lines from d5oelm.2da into the AK Elementalist's kit ability table, then load a save from before Cernd joined the party. When he joins, he should get proper sphere access. (Including that awesome 'focus access,' since in this case it would be copying the FnP kit's sphere access.)

Edited January 13, 2023 by subtledoctor

[subtledoctor]

Sry, dbl pst, the site is acting weird.

Edited September 13, 2022 by subtledoctor

[Oloriniel]

Thanks for the diagnosis and suggestions.  Good to know about the incompatibility.

I might be able to muddle through fixing him, but I wasn't planning on keeping him.  I've done the grove, confronted Deril and gotten the baby back...and usually, that's where I leave him.  However, I was curious as to whether there was any more to the story, and it looks like Deril becomes a lich 3 days after that confrontation, and we may come to blows at some point.  So I picked up Cernd again and will keep him for a little bit.

Besides, I'm running low on healers; I've cleared Jaheira, Anomen (up to the bug), Aerie and Viconia.  Helga's quest didn't work.  I forgot that Drake is BG1/SOD only.  So I've just picked up Arath, and there's Gavin, and then at some point I'll have to decide who to keep for the rest of SoA.  Oh yeah, I suppose I could see if the BG1NPCs like Yeslick and Branwen have any SoA quests.

As for the rest of the party, the other Bad Father, Keldorn, is staying with Maria and the kids, but I think the romance mod will bring him back in a few days.  Edwin's romance never started, and I was concerned that his quest was broken but Degardan just showed up for the first time.  And I think I've reached the last of Nalia's lovetalks.  Kivan I've kept and will keep aside from any interludes in which I need Kiyone or Emily, the other archers.



 

[jmerry]

Deril becoming a lich is cut content; there's some bits in there, but the script triggers to make it happen don't exist and the lich version isn't fully built (no spells, no combat script). Unless some mod restored it, that is.

Even in vanilla, telling Keldorn to spend some time with his family doesn't get rid of him permanently. He's up to rejoin after ... a day, I think?

[jastey]

3 hours ago, jmerry said:

Even in vanilla, telling Keldorn to spend some time with his family doesn't get rid of him permanently. He's up to rejoin after ... a day, I think?

But I think only if you tell him so. There is the option that he'll be gone for good. At least it was in oBG2 afaik.

[jmerry]

I can't speak to original BG2, but in the EE the action at the end of "I release you from my service" and the action at the end of "Okay, okay, you have a day" are identical (Check the tree from MARIA.DLG state 8 in NI). Either way, he comes back after one day.

[jastey]

@jmerry Huh. Would you look at that. And there I was, reloading so I could ask Keldorn to come back after a day and not figuring out you can just grab him after a day no matter what in all these years of modding, lol.

I checked for BGT and it seems to lead to the same variables and actions, indeed. In fact, after releasing him out of the party so he can be with his family, he can be picked up a day later with "are you ready?" and he'll just say "yes".

[Oloriniel]

Hmm.  Every time I've told Keldorn "I release you," I've never seen him again.  But then, I didn't return to his villa, either.

In any case, he just turned up, telling me Maria's dumped him.  And I've just done the Shade Lord quest (minus the dragon, and therefore no Foundling yet), so with AllThingsMazzy and K's romance starting I expect I'll have them both for a good while.  But I've just finished Edwin's content (since his romance never started) and I'm wrapping up Nalia's, so the party balance is about to shift back from arcane to melee.  As for healing, I've picked up Branwen.  Not sure if she has any quests, but her new dialogues are working for me.

I reloaded to avoid losing the thief stronghold, and didn't pick Cernd back up (which I wouldn't usually do, not wanting to give him another excuse to abandon his kid...)  Without him, Deril-the-Lich (complete with the Spell Immunity that keeps Breach etc from working) doesn't show.

That just leaves the Mage Stronghold to complete--and the Shaman, but I'll have to look up where to find it.

[Oloriniel]

Hmm...
I got a quest related to the shaman stronghold when I got to the Copper Coronet, killing the Shade Lord is a prerequisite.  Not having much luck finding the ashes in Imnesvale, though.

On a different note, and it's not a big deal now since I'll be swapping her out shortly, but at some point Nalia became incapable of learning new spells from scrolls.  Only place I've seen that happen before was an issue with the BG1 to SoD transition.

 

 

[jastey]

9 hours ago, Oloriniel said:

Every time I've told Keldorn "I release you," I've never seen him again.  But then, I didn't return to his villa, either.

Me neither. I was searching for him in the order, if at all. But according to teh scripts, he should be back at his home.

[Austin]

On 9/13/2022 at 8:45 PM, Graion Dilach said:

The issues which come into my mind are the faulty IWD spell/scroll installations though (which i promised I'll take a try on.

I would be very grateful for help with setting up spells/scrolls, as I said earlier:)

I only ask you to use the latest version 14 in this case - all the bugs found at the moment have been fixed in it and the descriptions of some items have been reworked, the prices of some items have been adjusted, and unbalanced items have been removed from the merchants from the Water Gardens (these items are now separated into a separate subcomponent and are installed only by player's choice)

Edited September 16, 2022 by Austin