[released] Sir Ajantis for BGII mod

[jastey]

Thank you for the kind words!

 

And please, post any bugs or issues here. Don't bother finding the text in the tras, if you can give me the sentence or the misspelled word, I will search for it myself.

 

Proof-readings are always welcome, of course!

[Evaine Dian]

Three things that might be bugs:

 

- The first two of the banters between Ajantis and Yoshimo fired right after each other, without any break inbetween. This happened when I played the new beginnings romance and again when I played the engaged path.

 

 

- I played the new beginnings romance and got to the LT where a messenger (Douglas) gives Ajantis a note and he refuses to talk about what's going on. A moment later, the messenger came again and I got the LT from the engaged path (Es ist ein Brief von meinen Eltern, zusammen mit einer öffentlichen Ankündigung. Sie erfüllen ihre Ankündigung, <CHARNAME>.) I continued playing, as it didn't do any harm, it was just odd. I don't know if this is reproducible.

 

 

- There is a problem with the Golden Globe (spoiler, as it's about a quest):

 

I went to the temple of Oghma and showed the priest the Globe. I used the Globe right in the temple, a dialogue popped up (as it should be) and the Globe reappeared in the inventory. Then, I talked to the priest again and asked him if he could reverse the portal. I chose the reply option "Das werde ich tun. Bis dahin lebt wohl.", used the Globe again in the temple, got the dialogue again, but this time, it said "No valid replies or links", the dialogue aborted and the Globe did not reappear in the inventory.

 

[AkashaCatBat]

How long is it supposed to take for Douglas to show up after PC and Ajantis marry? I've had the after-wedding dialogue and have played a couple of hours after that, but so far no messenger. I'm in Spellhold now, but he should appear once I get back to Athkatla, right?

[jastey]

Thank you for the reports, Evaine Dian! The banters between Ajantis and Yoshimo are random banters, that get triggered by the engine. It is coincidence that two dialogues were triggered directly after the other (or, maybe they enjoyed talking so much.).

To the messenger: Hm, I don't see why he would be created and the engaged romance talk would fire in case of the new beginnings romance. Do you have a save game from shortly before it happened? EDIT: No, wait, I think I know at least why the second dialogue would fire, but nor why Douglas would be created a second time. I added some more checks, so hopefully that's solved locally. Thanks again!

 

The NVLOR is fixed locally.

 

AkashaCatBat: Yes, the messenger comes after the Underdark.

Edited May 6, 2009 by jastey

[Evaine Dian]

I have a savegame, in case you still need it. I just loaded it and realised that it was actually the other way round: First, Douglas appears and says the engaged path bit; then a second Douglas approaches us and says the nbromance bit.

 

There was something odd in my nbromance before that, as well: There was a dialogue in Spellhold where Ajantis called the PC "Liebste", so I assume the nbromance got mixed up with the engaged path at this point, too. It was only this one line, though. The drow city content which is exclusive to the engaged path did not appear, just as it should be.

 

(I did quite a lot of proofreading yesterday and will probably continue tomorrow. It's fun - it's unbelievable how much content there is to discover! You really must have put a lot of effort into this mod. )

Edited May 6, 2009 by Evaine Dian

[Guest Dirty Uncle Bertie]

jastey, this is just off the top of my head and is my current understanding of how the Mae'Var quest works, as well as a first draft of a possible alternate path to completing it.

 

Renal doesn't trust Mae'Var so wants you to go work for him and find some evidence of wrongdoing. Mae'Var's first job for you is to steal the amulet off of the Weathermistress Ada, priestess of Talos/steal a Statuette of Lathander from their temple.

 

At this stage, if Ajantis is in the party, he could interject as soon as you leave Mae'Var's guild building, stating that he objects strongly to stealing. He could make some comment about how he'll tolerate associating with the Shadow Thieves for a time if it helps save Imoen, but that he himself refuses to become "a petty thief" (or similar). He, or maybe another, more street-wise party member, could then suggest seeing if Renal or someone in his group can help so the party doesn't have to resort to stealing. Then charname could go and explain to Renal what Mae'Var wants and their objection to stealing (Renal may well find this amusing and could gently mock him/her for this).

 

It makes sense to me that Renal would help the party since it's all part of trying to uncover Mae'Var's wrongdoing. As to what form this help would take, that's the next thing to decide on.

 

The "draws a sketch" idea is a nice one, but I think it may be difficult to implement in a realistic manner. If the amulet or statue are particularly detailed, it's hard to imagine a perfect copy (that'll fool Mae'Var) being made from a quick sketch (plus I think the statue is kept in a safe). Perhaps instead Renal should just offer to have one of his own thieves steal the item for you (let's say you then return after two days and collect the item from Renal), but that he'd need a "non-refundable deposit" of XXX gold in case his thief gets caught and is arrested by the authorities. I think Renal should also make it clear to charname that having his thieves effectively put themselves at risk for Mae'Var is a one-off. If charname accepts Renal's proposal and pays the gold, Ajantis should probably make some comment (since it was he who made the objection to stealing in the first place), and could perhaps thank charname for respecting his principles and finding an alternative course of action.

 

The only thing I think you need to be cautious about here is a *lack* of objection by Ajantis if charname later does anything else that's morally dubious. I mean, I think it's great that he objects to the stealing thing, but why doesn't he also object to the murder of Rayic Gethras (is it because Rayic Gethras is evil?). Anyway, as well as thanking charname for respecting his principles etc. as suggested above, how about he also says that he accepts charname needs to do everything possible to try and rescue his/her friend, so he [Ajantis] will attempt to be understanding of whatever course of action charname decides on in future. To me, this could suggest a subtle shift in the character development of Ajantis, but it mainly serves as a way of you not having to have him object to anything dubious charname/the party does in future.

 

In case you were wondering, no, I haven't forgotten about Adalon's Blood, and will hopefully be done with it soon.

[Evaine Dian]

At this stage, if Ajantis is in the party, he could interject as soon as you leave Mae'Var's guild building, stating that he objects strongly to stealing.

 

Perhaps instead Renal should just offer to have one of his own thieves steal the item for you (let's say you then return after two days and collect the item from Renal), but that he'd need a "non-refundable deposit" of XXX gold in case his thief gets caught and is arrested by the authorities.

 

If charname accepts Renal's proposal and pays the gold, Ajantis should probably make some comment (since it was he who made the objection to stealing in the first place), and could perhaps thank charname for respecting his principles and finding an alternative course of action.

I admit I'm not too familiar with a paladin's honour code, but are you sure this would work? Sure, the PC wouldn't have to steal herself, but she would still cause an item being stolen from a temple...

 

 

 

I mean, I think it's great that he objects to the stealing thing, but why doesn't he also object to the murder of Rayic Gethras (is it because Rayic Gethras is evil?).

 

I was suprised about that, too.

[Ankhesenpaaten]

Spoiler -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It struck me as strange that when the PC drops the golden globe for the first time the portal opens and then closes. That part is fine, but it is odd that when she tells the priest that she says she "doesn't WANT to go thru the portal" and wants what is on the other side brought out. Well, really, she CAN'T go thru the portal. Why doesn't she say "I cannot enter that portal for some reason, so could you try to bring what is on the other side out?"

 

It just seemed weird. But it is so great to have Ajantis back!

[Guest Guest]

Ankhesenpaaten - well, she can go through the portal, just not everywhere.

[Guest Dirty Uncle Bertie]

At this stage, if Ajantis is in the party, he could interject as soon as you leave Mae'Var's guild building, stating that he objects strongly to stealing.

 

Perhaps instead Renal should just offer to have one of his own thieves steal the item for you (let's say you then return after two days and collect the item from Renal), but that he'd need a "non-refundable deposit" of XXX gold in case his thief gets caught and is arrested by the authorities.

 

If charname accepts Renal's proposal and pays the gold, Ajantis should probably make some comment (since it was he who made the objection to stealing in the first place), and could perhaps thank charname for respecting his principles and finding an alternative course of action.

I admit I'm not too familiar with a paladin's honour code, but are you sure this would work? Sure, the PC wouldn't have to steal herself, but she would still cause an item being stolen from a temple...

 

I mean, I think it's great that he objects to the stealing thing, but why doesn't he also object to the murder of Rayic Gethras (is it because Rayic Gethras is evil?).

I was suprised about that, too.

Evaine Dian, maybe you're right about the "amulet/statue gets stolen anyway so it doesn't really matter who does the actual stealing". From Ajantis' point of view, if the party is responsible for the item being stolen, whether they actually stole it themselves or not, I can see how he may have a problem with it. So maybe that's not such a good idea after all.

 

Maybe instead the party could steal the original, get a copy made then return the original (telling a little white lie when they return it, saying they found the item somewhere or something, and had heard that an item like it had recently been stolen from the temple). Ajantis may not approve, but perhaps he'll understand that it was a necessary evil.

 

As for the killing thing, unless there's some really, really good reason why he doesn't object to it, I think we've got a bit of a "plot hole" here. Most people would, I think, say to themselves "So you'll leave the party if I steal something but do absolutely nothing when I murder someone?!". I'm not trying to crap on jastey's writing here, rather just trying to understanding the reasoning behind it all. I'd personally be tempted simply to more or less ape Keldorn's response(s) to the thief quests, removing any possible inconsistencies in Ajantis' attitude or reaction to the various quests.

 

Or, if jastey really wants to have Ajantis remain so strongly opposed to the Shadow Thief quests, he could state that he wants no part of it and feels compelled to leave the party for a time. However, what then happens when Mae'Var's quests are over and you start working for Aran Linvail? No, this would either mean that you also don't have Ajantis in the group for these quests, or you have an inconsistency as to which thieves he will and won't work for. Perhaps it would be better to just, like Keldorn, have him issue a blanket statement of objection regarding the Shadow Thief quests, and leave it at that.

 

Out of interest, are there any similar quests in BG1, and how does Ajantis (vanilla or BG1NPC) react in these circumstances? Does he ever threaten to leave the group because of stealing or killing? If not, BG2 Ajantis probably shouldn't either. Just my opinion.

[jastey]

Thank you for your ideas and the discussion.

 

Others ideas that came up were:

-invent a spell that creates an relistic image of the object that could be used to make the copy

-bribe a temple priest to give the item fo some time so a duplicate could be made

-go the straight way and talk to the high priest of the temple, explain the situation and get their help in having a copy made.

 

I really like the last idea. It has so absolutely nothing to do with stealing any more, and is very much paladin-like.

 

About your first idea, Uncle Bertie: I also think that Ajantis wouldn't agree the item to be stolen by somebody else. But getting Renal's help for the copy is a realistic idea.

 

About the other quests: Of course Ajantis objects to killing someone for the Shadow Thieves. If the other quests (killing the mage and killing the thief) are given, he objects and stresses his interest that the PC first talks to these persons. The mage will instantly attack, and he is evil, and the thief, well, is a thief. If the PC lets him go, Ajantis is not sure whether it was good thing to do or not. It's an awkward situation.

 

While designing Ajantis, I had a good look at Keldorn's reaction. In some cases, they don't go far enough in my opinion. Of course I want to blend into the game, yet for an NPC with X+ dialogues and PID, the level of the original BioWare NPC is left behind anyway. I wanted him to be believable, as a paladin in the D&D world. Now, BGII is not good for this at all, since the PC has to side with one of two evil sides for the game to continue. So, of course Ajantis will accept that the PC sides with Aran Linvail, because otherwise I could have stopped developping the NPC. But yes, the thief quest was one of the first things I did for this mod (after the reaction to Sir Sarles), so the reaction might be a bit stronger than in other situations. Yet still not unappropriate.

 

I wouldn't know there is such a bad case for a paladin in BG1. There, it is mainly look for your main enemy - now look for the boss of this main enemy - now look for the boss of this boss, etc.

 

Engine limitations is the reason Ajantis won't react to thefts done in houses, looting tombs, etc. But in my head I see him complaining about that, and I would have implemented it if it would be feasible with an appropriate amount of effort.

 

 

Evaine Dian: Oops, could well be that I made a romance talk available for the friendship track, and forgot to eliminate all love talk references. Thank you for the report. Thank you very much also for the proof reading, it is very much appreciated. Yeah, I can't believe how much different reply options and parallel dialogue paths I am offering the player and wrote reactions to things probably no-one will ever play.

[AkashaCatBat]

I am going insane.

 

I can't find the place where you are supposed to buy Ajantis' locket. I talked to the guy in the docks district, but the only locket he would sell me was the one with the pictures in it. I can't seem to find anyone who will make a locket for a man.

[Evaine Dian]

Check out the Mithrest Inn.

[Senka]

Ask master Surianko for help

[Ankhesenpaaten]

Ankhesenpaaten - well, she can go through the portal, just not everywhere.

 

 

No, I cannot. It opens, has the description and closes before I can take any action whatsoever.

 

However, if no-one else is having this trouble than it is likely my mods installation so no biggie.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Ankhesenpaaten