Offtopic Anvil Discussion

[jastey]

So at which point does criticism become "babbling"?

At once, if it is addressed at Baronius, if you haven't noticed yet.

Seriously, using this psychological tactic, where the arguments of the opponents are termed in a dismissive or patronizing way to weaken them, and to make oneself look superior, is one of the reasons I have a hard time to take Baronius' arguments seriously.

 

My apologies if this sounds offending, but it is one of the reasons I am only posting one liners in "discussion" threads where you state your opinion, Baronius - I don't have more time before going through the ceiling. [/irony] Before this turns into another "what has become of you" personal discussions, I really wished you could see what I mean for a small little moment. When I posted my suspicions about the quality of your night sleep, I didn't mean to sound dismissive; I really think you are suffering from a light form of persecution complex if it comes to forum communities, antipathy between them, people trying to damage BWL, etc... But it is pointless to write this here, and I guess I will regret it soon. My apologies for the off-topicness.

[icelus]

And icelus, the maintainer also checks this thread, as we can see.

 

Nope, sorry, icelus is no longer the maintainer. I haven't been for quite some time, actually. You should get out more.

[Avenger]

It is the most difficult BG tactical mod i ever see.

Ah, evidently you have not played any of ManAtWork's mods.

The toughest mod is GBG, it is impossible to win.

[Baronius]

When I posted my suspicions about the quality of your night sleep, I didn't mean to sound dismissive; I really think you are suffering from a light form of persecution complex if it comes to forum communities

You think I'm taking this bloody seriously? It looks so, and yes, sometimes I do take the time (though I usually have little), and express my opinion. The only reason why I do it is to open the eyes of certain readers. (I'm sure now TheBigg and some others will draw the attention that since there are no such posts to prove this, I'm talking about obviously 0 people. Spare me, please. Instead, read as follows.) I did the same, but in a much larger size, with my long post in G3 FP thread. I received personal feedback from several people that they found it very useful (some of them publicly posted it and it still can be seen), and they didn't find it a post full of "hate and idiocy", instead they got convinced (including someone who has preferred G3 FP before and now would be happy to see G3 FP altered according to my advice). Unfortunately, exactly those feel it as an attack who would have to be grateful for it. (OK, now I'm looking forward to replies: "I am *not* interested in what you say", "You did *not* open my eyes. Go ahead! ) So yes, jastey, sometimes I tend to reply seriously, because I've experienced it does have effect. Don't worry, it really isn't a strain for me -- I deal with much bigger things IRL normally (which could cause strain), and even those aren't a problem for me. But thanks for your concern anyway, then.

 

Baronius, I don't know why you keep insisting that folks that don't like IA are ignorant, biased, non-modders who don't understand about dependencies or compatibilities.

 

There are several folks on this thread who are well-informed, have played IA, have endeavored to maintain neutrality even in the face of rhetoric, are modders, and who do understand dependencies and compatibility, and they still manage not to like IA.

You completely misunderstand it. I have never said that "people who don't like IA" are "ignorant, ..." etc. There is saying "If the cap fits, wear it". There were several civilized (both positive and less positive) opinions formed in this thread. I'm talking about persons who really don't know about anything and they act as if they were familiar with the topic and make determined judgements. For example, temujin wouldn't write nonsense even in his latest (!) post (i.e. "That "reason" is nothing but meaningless drivel filled with hate and idiocy") if he understood dependencies and compatibility, and that long of post mine. (On a side note, SimDing0 found that "meaningless drivel filled with hate and idiocy" very compelling, that's what he said me in a PM earlier. But I need not to explain anything: every modder who wanted to understand it, did understand it.) Again, it's not about "not liking IA". Those posts of mine (also) reacted to various points of this thread such as "why to make IA a TC" and so on. As I said, I don't want to *convince* anyone. (Instead, everyone should do his or her own research and considerations, and optionally, allow what I've said here and in other topics to help in the research.) And as far as I remember, all of your, morgan's, and some others' posts are well-phrased and contain arguments, indeed -- and you "don't like IA" at the moment. "If the cap fits, wear it". So, otherwise don't. Though, as for your comment about modders understanding dependencies etc. -- then why do they pretend not to do so? If they do understand, why is Fixpack's so many "dependency-killer"elements still in the same mod, without warning that they can cause incompatibilities? And why are those self-important arrogant posts about "Your game will CRASH without Fixpack" and "If you can't or don't want to learn TP2 and programming to fix FP's 'fixes', you can just buggeroff" still there in the "I hate fix *this* fix" thread? I won't continue, because it's offtopic, but again, if they understand the theoretical basics, why they still don't at least plan to fix a mod (such as FP)?

 

To cut a long story short, certain people tend to form strong opinions about something they don't know well enough. (They are free to do so, but it really just making a fool of oneself.) For example, temujin's first post contained valid opinion "IA MUST be split to different components" (and other acceptable statements too), but once he has started to be the "clever guy" in modding too, and called a post which could be an IE modding tutorial a "meaningless drivel", the whole thing has become disillusioning and ridiculous.

 

No. That "reason" is nothing but meaningless drivel filled with hate and idiocy. Besides, like I said several times, I don't care about it because this has nothing to do with this topic. I'm trying to stick to my review of IA (isn't that what this thread is about?) You seem to put great effort in dragging the attention off of IA's shortcomings and somehow blame it on fixpack.

G3FP's main problem is also related to dependencies, but I gave a link to you to that topic in the belief that you will be able to find the part about general theory, big mods, compatibility interpretations and other *general* things. You failed. No problem.

 

DavidW and others: Of course, it's different from making a mod "modular" from scratch, than changing it later. And again, this giant self-confidence of certain people: how do you know every detail of IA to judge what can be done with it? Do you think you know it better than its author? The interrelations? The atmosphere and feeling its author want to create in the game? How can you be *100%* sure that the mod would reflect the same in more components? How can you be totally sure to judge a matter which even the mod's author couldn't easily judge? (By the way, David Wallace had a very good remark here, I recommend it to everyone.)

 

So at which point does criticism become "babbling"? Debates on categorizing aside, the people here who've given their opinion on IA actually played the thing, made their points and gave their reasons, and I don't seem to recall having read any lies or imprecisions.

Well, SimDing0 said that Sikret wanted IA to be in EVERY category of Fixpack. Which is clearly false. And as've said above, those who tried and played IA and expressed a negative (or positive) opinion are really not my problem. On the other hand, those who come with stupidities and comment things they don't know are responsible for causing confusion in threads such as this. But, "freedom of speech" above all!

[CamDawg]

Guys and gals, don't feed trolls. Remember that the topic is opinions of Improved Anvil. The BG2 Fixpack has a whole forum, just waiting for threads about how much it sucks.

[Guest temujin]

You're a funny guy, Baronius.

 

Hey, I got an idea that will finally put this IA's categorization to rest once and for all. Why don't we have a picture of a fucking pedestal on top of all other mods on the modlist page, and then have these words in huge, bold font on that pedestal:

 

"IMPROVED ANVIL - The greatest mod there is. A mod so complex and superior that it defies description."

 

Hopefully, then it will get the proper recognition that Baronius thinks it deserves.

 

 

"G3FP's main problem is also related to dependencies.. blah blah blah"

 

Since you obviously have reading comprehension problems, I'll say it again. What the fuck does G3fp have to do with a review about IA? When did I ever mention dependencies or G3Fixpack in my post (until you brought it up)?

 

You assumed that "most of the people who told their "opinion" about IA here have never played or even tried it.", and yet those who DID play the mod, from beginning to end and gave their opinions, you were unable to respond intelligently without resorting to things (aka fixpack) that have nothing to do with IA.

 

Start a new thread if you have a problem with G3fixpack. Until then, atleast for once, try to discuss your opinion of IA. or STFU please.

[SimDing0]

Well, SimDing0 said that Sikret wanted IA to be in EVERY category of Fixpack. Which is clearly false.

I think you're dragging this one way too far. I've also claimed that I run a dating agency for modders and that England's national sport is football violence.

[cmorgan]

After all, he is "Cute and Fluffy".

[Baronius]

Since you obviously have reading comprehension problems, I'll say it again. What the **** does G3fp have to do with a review about IA?

How incredibly intelligent you're. The linked FP topic explained how dependencies work. Which also apply on IA (regardless of FP). And on every other IE mod. Dependencies are important for IA, and many other BWL, G3, PPG, SHS etc. mods. Various types of dependencies influence compatibility between IA and other mods, and so on. If you had read the relevant part of the long post, or of any of my previous posts here, you would know.

 

 

SimDing0: as you know, written communication gives little place for metacommunication. If no distinction can be made between your exaggerating/ironic posts and serious statements, don't expect everyone to interpret them in the same way. Unless, of course, you never want yourself to be taken seriously by others If that's the case, no need to take responsibility for your words.

[Guest temujin]

Is this thread about how important dependencies are for IA and for "many other BWL, G3, PPG, SHS etc. mods"? Or is it about the actual content of IA and what people think of it?

 

Exactly. So stop bringing up unrelated nonsense.

 

 

"Various types of dependencies influence compatibility between IA and other mods, and so on."

 

Did I ever say IA should be compatible with this or that mod? You seem to have a knack for creating an argument even when there isn't any.

 

I still think you have enough brainpower in you to actually talk about the topic at hand. But we shall see.

[Baronius]

Nevermind. I'm doing something on the BWL forum anyway, so I'll reply to your post.

 

Is this thread about how important dependencies are for IA and for "many other BWL, G3, PPG, SHS etc. mods"? Or is it about the actual content of IA and what people think of it?

It was also brought up that it should be made a TC. It was also brought up that it should be split to more components. Well, dependencies and interrelations are important when deciding if something should be added to a TC or not. "IA should be made a TC" is an opinion about Improved Anvil. Furthermore, you mentioned it must be split to components (so don't say it's me who started something you find off-topic). Well, splitting something to components is also related to interrelations and depdendencies.

[Guest temujin]

Good. At least now you're slowly taking steps in the right direction.

 

I said it should be split into components NOT BECAUSE it would help with compatibility issues. But that it would help players choose what things they want to install as they may not like certain parts that don't make much sense. It was never about compatibility. Even if IA was incompatible with every mod out there, I wouldn't hold that against it as long as it is good enough to impress me.

[Baronius]

Good. At least now you're slowly taking steps in the right direction.

All these have been obvious from the beginning (because I only repeated and detailed my earlier post in multiple posts on your "requests", lol), but glad to see I managed to get you interpret it nonetheless.

 

I said it should be split into components NOT BECAUSE it would help with compatibility issues.

And I've said (again, repeating myself) that splitting it into components IS influenced by dependencies, and I offered that link to you to read more about dependencies to understand why it's isn't so easy to split a mod such as IA to multiple components. And thus, maybe you wouldn't demand it so strongly. But this discussion is void, because you made me clear that you know the topic excellently, and you know IA's model excellently, better than its author Sikret so it if other modders can make multiple components then why Sikret can't etc.

 

But that it would help players choose what things they want to install as they may not like certain parts that don't make much sense. It was never about compatibility. Even if IA was incompatible with every mod out there, I wouldn't hold that against it as long as it is good enough to impress me.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you're just wasting time by making so much effort in this: Sikret has decided long ago. The decision was made. Tell, what would you like to achieve with all these?

[Guest temujin]

WRONG AGAIN!

 

Others on this thread have pointed out how easy it is to make things optional. If it is not possible to split IA into parts, it just means it wasn't thought out well enough right from the start. You can spin it however you want, but that's just the way it is.

 

 

"Sorry to disappoint you, but you're wasting this time by making so much effort in this: Sikret has decided long ago. The decision was made."

 

And why are you wasting so much time defending IA? Do you speak for Sikret? Are you his personal assistant? his sidekick? Is he paying you for this? If he is, well sign me up, doc! I'm on the bandwagon too!!!

[Guest temujin]

Not enough. I'll pass.

 

"ok" then.