IR V3 - List of changes from V2 to V3

[Demivrgvs]

Cleric's Staff

Each hit with the Staff has a 1% chance to restore a previously-cast Priest spell to memory.

Even that isn't as unique as you might think, because that's more or less how V3 Dak'kon's Zerth Blade works . . . I don't see how hitting an opponent with a staff could restore a previously cast cleric spell.

Well, phooey! I thought I was coming up with a snazzy new idea. Well, actually, a weapon that restores Priest spells actually makes slightly more sense than Wizard spells, as one could argue that whackin' your god's enemies, or whackin' them in a certain way, or whatever, is pleasing to your god and you get rewarded with increased favor. But for Wizard spells . . . you have to say something about how it saps the victim's aura or Intelligence and transfers it to the wielder, although logically this would only make sense when the Zerth Blade is used to hit Wizards.

Eh eh, but that's indeed how it works. Even V2's Adjatha The Drinker already worked like that by draining wizard's spells to raise wielder health and max HP.

 

So, 3 generic designs [all of which you've probably already done], all of which are only usable by Clerics & Druids:

 

1) Wielder Regenerates 1 hp per 12 seconds while equipped, can cast Transfusion (wielder loses 2D6 hp, target creature healed by same amount) at will.

2) Bless while equipped (non-cumulative with Bless spell), casts Sanctuary 3x/day.

3) Casts Righteous Magic (or DUDM, or whatever) 1x/day, with all proficiencies except Staff and 2-Handed Weapon set to 0 for the duration. (Though I haven't actually tested to see if Weapon Proficiencies can safely be set temporarily).

Either that, or just make the Cleric's Staff take on all the properties of the Staff of Curing, and stick something else in Besamen's tomb.

1) If you take a look at 1st post you'll notice V3's Staff of Curing is an improved version of this, granting a healing aura.

 

2) That could actually make Ardanis happy as he was hoping for a Bless-Sanctuary combo. The problem here are:

- Bless grants +1 to hit/dmg/morale, thus a plain +1 enchantment lvl is actually better as you get +1 to hit/dmg/enchantment lvl

- V2's version of this staff had Aid instead of Bless, as additional hit points and +1 to all saves are instead very good imo (I and Ardanis renamed it Aerie's staff as she clearly was the perfect user of it), but using non-stackable effects like this is very tricky and it's even worse on weapons because of their fast switching behaviour (it's a long story)

 

I do thought about using Sanctuary somewhere, but I wouldn't use it as a x/day ability, I'd rather like to see it trigger by itself when wielder is "helpless" or badly injured.

 

3) I see you also tried to suggest a solution to avoid my issue with x/day abilities on weapons, but that's not doable. The only way to make this concept work is to make it create a dispellable, non-droppable version of the staff and add all DuDM effects as while equipped effects.

 

I'll think a little about all of this, though the staff may temporarily remain as it is for now.

[Demivrgvs]

Just to give some more hope for future beta testers, Ardanis and I have pratically finished everything, thus (I can't believe what I'm about to say) it could be a matter of a couple of days at most if I'm not wrong.

 

In the meanwhile, I'm updating the first post with all swords (all short swords are already there, but I'm still messing around with a bunch of long and bastard swords) in case you want to take a look and insult me about one change or two before the release.

 

Bleeding Damage

I've also done a last minute global change to all bleeding effects: bleeding damage doesn't use neither vanilla's 'poison' opcode nor 'damage - poison' opcode but is applied by lowering target's hit point via 'current hp bonus' opcode. This way it now is a truly different effect, and not just "poison with a different portrait icon". Creatures immune to poison (naturally or via items/spells) aren't necessarily immune to bleeding dmg anymore, and at the same time I can make selected creatures immune to it even if they are not immune to poison via EFF files.

 

If anyone thinks this may have any drawback let me know. Ardanis for example seemed to remember an issue in BG1 where characters brought to 0 hp this way get grey portrait but dodn't die till another source of dmg inflicts at least 1 point. Can anyone confirm this?

 

An alternative but similar solution, in case that report is true and problematic, could be to use 'stunning damage' instead of 'current hp bonus'. I think that having opponents fall unconscious at 0 hp by blood loss could be a fine solution anyway, perhaps even more unique/interesting than my current one.

 

What do you think?

 

P.S I'm also thinking about making SR V4 Cure Wound spells close bleeding wounds (via sec type), but that's a different story and will require time.

[polytope]

Bleeding Damage

I've also done a last minute global change to all bleeding effects: bleeding damage doesn't use neither vanilla's 'poison' opcode nor 'damage - poison' opcode but is applied by lowering target's hit point via 'current hp bonus' opcode. This way it now is a truly different effect, and not just "poison with a different portrait icon". Creatures immune to poison (naturally or via items/spells) aren't necessarily immune to bleeding dmg anymore, and at the same time I can make selected creatures immune to it even if they are not immune to poison via EFF files.

 

If anyone thinks this may have any drawback let me know. Ardanis for example seemed to remember an issue in BG1 where characters brought to 0 hp this way get grey portrait but dodn't die till another source of dmg inflicts at least 1 point. Can anyone confirm this?

I can confirm, even if this could kill creatures, I'm not sure the game would assign xp for it - witness stat drain deaths.

 

An alternative but similar solution, in case that report is true and problematic, could be to use 'stunning damage' instead of 'current hp bonus'. I think that having opponents fall unconscious at 0 hp by blood loss could be a fine solution anyway, perhaps even more unique/interesting than my current one.

 

What do you think?

 

P.S I'm also thinking about making SR V4 Cure Wound spells close bleeding wounds (via sec type), but that's a different story and will require time.

I've noticed undead creatures are not immune to stunning damage or even the KO from it (only fists deal stunning in vanilla), so immunity via eff should be applied.

 

For bleeding, if it uses the disease opcode cure disease will automatically stop it - interestingly most undead aren't immune to disease either, so this isn't the best solution.

 

Alternatively make bleeding deal slashing or piercing damage, with immunity extended to such creatures as golems and elementals.

 

I've noticed that with the G3 fixpack items granting poison immunity remove the "bleeding" icon, which should probably be reverted if damage type is changed from poison.

[SixOfSpades]

About Spears with a range of 3: I haven't tested this yet, but I'm concerned about the ramifications of such long-range melee weapons possibly defeating Fireshields. This might be a good thing (it actually makes sense that if you poke the guy from 15 feet away, his 5-foot-flames can't reach you), or a bad thing (other, possibly modded, backlash effects, which are intended to fire in response to all melee hits, will fail), or a total non-issue (Sanchuudoku obviously proves that backlash effects do not have to be limited by range). Could somebody with more experience experimenting with backlash effects shed some additional light on this?

 

Bleeding Damage

bleeding damage doesn't use neither vanilla's 'poison' opcode nor 'damage - poison' opcode but is applied by lowering target's hit point via 'current hp bonus' opcode. . . .

An alternative but similar solution, in case that report is true and problematic, could be to use 'stunning damage' instead of 'current hp bonus'.

I'm in favor of the first plan, and of course having creatures with no actual blood flow (Vampires, Golems, etc) be immune. I'd like to keep Stunning damage as a "magic bullet," a type of damage that no creature can ever be immune to, to be used only sparingly for things like plot events & being sure that at least a tiny bit of damage can bypass all protections. And possibly for a Sap / Blackjack / Cosh weapon.

[DarkWon]

Hammers deal vanilla's dmg again because we decided to not remove hidden AC values from armors. With them still in place a hammer dealing the same dmg of a long sword is simply too much superior to the latter which wouldn't have a single advantage (except a small +1 speed factor advantage). Crusing dmg is almost always the better dmg type (e.g. golems) and always have thac0 advantage over slashing weapons (up to an outstanding +3/+4 vs heavy armors).

 

Would an optional component "Heavier Hammers" making hammers 1d8 damage and speed 8 be a possibility? I'm assuming BG doesn't just have a BaseItems table where you can just change all hammers by changing one column right, you'd have to make two copies of each item :/

 

Its not really overpowered if you consider that Flail is already 2d4 damage and speed 8

 

EDIT: Yeah, should be speed 8. Bludgeoning weapons now get around +2 to hit against armour wearing enemies, so it would have to be significantly slower than longsword

[SixOfSpades]

Cleric's Staff

Forgot to add that, if no satisfying "generic Cleric" enchantment can be found for this weapon, I for one would prefer to see it renamed to an unadorned Staff+3, rather than cram yet another anti-Undead thing into the game.

[Demivrgvs]

I've updated the first post again with long swords, bastard swords, greatswords, and xbows (only 1 xbow has received changes worth to be discussed). Now that list is really almost complete, as only 6-7 items are still hanging because I'm messing with them, but I'll close everyting within 24 hours, and Ardanis did everything except the code for patching mod added armors. Let's hope some beta testers are still around!

 

Bleeding Damage

...bleeding damage doesn't use neither vanilla's 'poison' opcode nor 'damage - poison' opcode but is applied by lowering target's hit point via 'current hp bonus' opcode.

I can confirm, even if this could kill creatures, I'm not sure the game would assign xp for it - witness stat drain deaths.

I'll look into it, though dying by blood loss surely isn't common.

 

An alternative but similar solution could be to use 'stunning damage' instead of 'current hp bonus'...

I've noticed undead creatures are not immune to stunning damage or even the KO from it (only fists deal stunning in vanilla), so immunity via eff should be applied.

I'm already using EFF files to prevent it from working on those creatures anyway (I don't trust vanilla's resistances/immunities).

 

For bleeding, if it uses the disease opcode cure disease will automatically stop it - interestingly most undead aren't immune to disease either, so this isn't the best solution.

 

Alternatively make bleeding deal slashing or piercing damage, with immunity extended to such creatures as golems and elementals.

The whole point of my change was to make it a truly different effect, making it use physical dmg ruins that imo. Not to mention I'm not sure physical dg fits the concept, and slashing/piercing dmg also come with an hardcoded sound effect everytime they are applied making it kinda odd.

 

Using disease is not much different from the old poison solution, and runs into similar problems. Btw ALL undead should be immune to disease (see, vanilla's resistances/immunities cannot be trusted!).

 

I've noticed that with the G3 fixpack items granting poison immunity remove the "bleeding" icon, which should probably be reverted if damage type is changed from poison.

IR is installed after Fixpack and reverts that change.

 

 

Spears

About Spears with a range of 3: I haven't tested this yet, but I'm concerned about the ramifications of such long-range melee weapons possibly defeating Fireshields. ...

Well...that's the intended behaviour.

 

 

Hammers

... Would an optional component "Heavier Hammers" making hammers 1d8 damage and speed 8 be a possibility? ...

For both maces and hammers I was thinking about having a bunch of heavy specimens, but as a general reule they'll stay as planned for now. I'm not granting multiple choices for weapon changes because else everyone could start aasking for his own different change (e.g. 1d10 spears) but looking at Ardanis code you should be able to easily alter it. Btw, with 1d8 dmg hammer's speed factor should be 7.

 

 

Cleric's Staff

Forgot to add that, if no satisfying "generic Cleric" enchantment can be found for this weapon, I for one would prefer to see it renamed to an unadorned Staff+3, rather than cram yet another anti-Undead thing into the game.

My position on this is that I'd like to not delay a pre-release anymore. I'll think about your point about not using once again a anti-undead concept because I kinda agree and I'm sure I'll find a better concept (eventually with a new name) but I'll leave that for the actual release if not a post-release mini update.

[Shaitan]

Nice additions/changes. Looking from my rainy perspective (holidays with my family) I just have to stay alert to see wether I get a chance to test the next weeks or not

 

Cheers

[joshuar9476]

i'll be starting a new run through the whole bgt in the next week... i'd love to beta test it if you need another person.

[lynx]

slightly related, do you know where fireshields get that 5 feet limit from? I hope it's not internal to the cast-spell-on-condition opcode (do all on-hit uses have the same limit?).

[Ardanis]

From secondary SPL's range. Somebody (devSin? Galactygon?) said that this range is signficantly reduced when the spell is activated through cast-on-condition.

[Incantatar]

Just a question: Am i right with the assumption that all these "add +x to cl" effects won't do anything once a caster reaches level 20? I think Dispel Magic even in SR still uses higher cl, this would be the exception.

[Demivrgvs]

Just a question: Am i right with the assumption that all these "add +x to cl" effects won't do anything once a caster reaches level 20? I think Dispel Magic even in SR still uses higher cl, this would be the exception.

You are correct, in fact I'm not using such opcode for late game items. That being said, when it comes to multi-class spellcasters the effect is way more valuable and still effective till the end of a "normal" ToB run (by "normal" I mean without those huge quest mods that raises xp gain to levels even more ridiculous than those you can already reach within a vanilla game). If you take Aerie for example (the NPC who get the most from wearing IR's Amulet of Power), her mage lvl with 6.000.000 xp is still 18, thus a +2 to caster lvl for her is perfect.

[Incantatar]

That being said, when it comes to multi-class spellcasters the effect is way more valuable and still effective till the end of a "normal" ToB run.

Keep in mind that there are not many advantages to play a single class caster at all at later stages. Even Kit Revisions is still some way ahead.

[Thailog]

Any progress on the new version?

 

I was thinking of making another BG Trilogy run in a few weeks and I wanted to include IR V3.