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berelinde

Family planning in mods [POLL CLOSED]

Herbs: good idea/bad idea  

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I'm not even going to bother to try to frame this as a hypothetical question, but it could apply to future mods, as well.

 

Some NPCs are more aware of family planning needs than others. Some NPCs actually get the PC pregnant, while others imply or state that the romanced NPC is taking measures to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Ajantis does in BG1 NPC and Gavin does in his BG1 mod. It isn't romantic, but it is real. Sex without consequences might be an intriguing concept, but it just doesn't make sense that some NPCs are so unconcerned about unwanted pregnancy.

 

Alright, this is where it gets specific.

 

Gavin is really, really aware of the consequences of unprotected sex. He has good reason to refuse it, since accepting it once changed his life forever.

 

I've been toying with the idea of adding herbs to the stock of several BG2 merchants, and letting the PC buy them (dirt cheap) if she wants to get intimate with Gavin.

 

So, my question is this. Is this too much realism? Too much of a headache? Would you rather just leave it as an assumption that everyone is doing everything they have to do? Or is this added realism welcome? Do you think it's implausible for someone as aware as Gavin is about the consequences of past misdeeds *not* to insist on proper protection?

 

Most things can be accomplished with installation options, but this couldn't be. It would have to be included from the get-go or discarded.

Edited by berelinde

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I usually assume that my PC is taking necessary precautions (with the help of Jaheira's extensive knowledge of herbs). However, it makes complete sense for Gavin to insist on taking precautions, especially with my his past (I won't go into the details in order to avoid spoilers). I wouldn't mind having to go to a merchant if that's what Gavin wants (and if pursuing the romance requires it); it certainly doesn't seem implausible of him to be so concerned about it. However, no hoops or extensive quests, please! :thumbsup:

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It seems a little excessive. By all means have him require protection, but keep it to dialogue. The PC presumably obtains food and such somehow as well, but we don't need to see any of that in the game; it just drags things out.

 

Not to mention that it would look kind of weird to suddenly see a bunch of birth control items everywhere if you're not up to that part yet/not recruiting Gavin this time around... and the fact that they (presumably) won't work with other characters.

 

 

...and speaking purely from a gameplay perspective, the less I have to run around and load new areas, the happier I'll be.

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Sex in mods? Oh dear here comes that M rating. :thumbsup:

 

Some things are best left to the imagination.

Edited by CoM_Solaufein

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Thank you very much for commenting as well as voting. Not only is it more helpful in terms of player feedback (and modders *live* for player feedback), it allows me to explain a few things that might have been overlooked in the initial post.

 

The intention was to make sure that all of the "merchant friendly" areas of the game had at least one vendor who would sell the necessary supplies. In the Bridge District, Mrs. Cragmoon would be the logical choice, since she's all about herbal magic and potions, but I'd probably also add the item to Bel's (the guy who gives you the sollik berries and oak bark) stock, as well. You could buy these things from a pharmacist in Waukeen's Promenade, a new herbalist in Trademeet, the above-mentioned places in the Bridge District, a new herbalist in the Docks, a new herbalist in the Slums, a new herbalist in Imnesvale, the witch in the Druid Grove (assuming you don't just kill her), the merchant in Suldanessellar, a new herbalist in Brynnlaw, and the shop in the Ust Natha tavern.

 

The herbalists would all offer a variety of potions in addition to contraceptive herbs, so it wouldn't be a total waste.

 

The idea here is to make the playing experience richer, not to provide additional hoops a player must jump through to navigate a romance, so PCs who lack the necessary components would not be cut off, as it were.

 

I want to make it clear from the outset that I am going with a simple majority here. I am including multiple flavors of yes and no so I can more accurately gauge player perception and expectations, but I will be governed by majority vote. In the event of a tie or a preponderance of neutral ("I don't care one way or the other") votes, I'll go with my own preference, which is to include this feature (I haven't voted, since I'm saving my vote in case there's a tie), but if the majority says "Don't do it," I'll abide by that decision. I'll close the poll when I start writing up the actual talks. You'll know this because I'll have posted "Phase1 complete, initiating Phase 2."

 

Since I expect to start Phase 1 testing tomorrow, and anticipate Phase 1 testing to take 3 real days, this is the deadline for voting.

Edited by berelinde

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If you did this, it'd be best done properly - i.e. make the herbs available "generically" as it were, not just with respect to Gavin. And probably do at least a few types of herbs for different purposes, so a single one wouldn't look out of place at a shop. I posted some info on herbs here though it is not a full list - I'm sure there are others for your purpose. The hardest part would be the BAMs, unless you use generic potions (custom herb BAMs would be much cooler of course).

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I answered with this:

You should definitely do this in your mod. I wish it were possible to set it up for the BioWare NPCs, too.
Well, I would go and buy ... if I could go on with the Aerie's romance with ... but it might be even better if the romance could include the baby. :thumbsup:

As the romance stops if the PC and the Aerie ...

 

So I suggest that if you can do this correctly, and make it so it doesn't feel too out of the 4th wall, go for it totally.

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Now that I think about it, it is strange that NPCs don't give any thought to this. Including this would be a good idea.

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I like the idea, but I'd prefer something les explicit, more like one item that doesn't get used up, but that has to be in the inventary to allow Gavin to get intimate with the PC. Maybe herbs that are uncountable and just remain in the inventory.

I don't like the idea of a distinct number of herbs that are used up so you could "count" by the remaining number how often Gavin and the PC "did" it. And I certainly wouldn't want to miss a romantic/intimate ending of a lovetalk just because I am trapped in some unreachable mod area or somesuch.

Edited by jastey

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I like the idea very much, and voted for the secondlast option. I gues it should reflect real life also.

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Yeah, I think this would be a good thing to implement, but I support Jastey's view that it would be better as a hidden variable and not an item in the inventory. This way, you could also buy it through dialogue, asking for this type of herb.

 

 

Icen

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If I do this, I'll do it right. Even conveniences (or in this case, inconveniences) are more fun when they're fleshed out in a way that doesn't make them feel artificial. That's why I went through all the effort of coming up with a plausible story for Captain Ruby, in Homeward Bound, and why I included a merchant with a "piratey" inventory, and why I wrote over 60 flirts for Wren.

 

Don't worry, though. Even if the PC never goes to the herbalist at all, she'd be able to tell Gavin that looking after this is his responsibility, to be addressed on his time and with his gold (making the assumption here that the items would be dirt cheap and that NPCs have a private stash of pocket change that isn't included in party inventory). That way, players who aren't amused by this or who just don't want to deal with the logistics of it could tell him to keep a supply on hand and never have to worry about it again. And Jastey, you should know me well enough to know that I would make some provision for the PC who finds herself lacking the necessary supplies. :thumbsup:

 

So I guess this could be a player's option, after all. Don't like the concept? Just tell him to deal with it himself.

 

This is my source for Forgotten Realms alchemy and herbalism, and I'd really like to give the herbalists more to do than sell one item... but I'm no good with BAMs. If I include this, I'd probably need help with the BAMs. I've exported the BG1 ToSC flowers BAM and a couple potion-like BAMs that don't get used in BG2, but that wouldn't be enough. The list in the link I posted contains a number of items that could easily be worked into the game. Besides the obvious Cassil Herb, I liked Alchemical Sleep Gas, Dark Oil (though I don't want to think about swapping out all those drow items a party could accumulate), Snakebite, Felsul Flower Oil, Mule Pollen, Silverbark Sap, Brown Mold Oil, Priest's Bullets, Wittlewort Brew, Prickly Tea, Wolfweed Journeyman Serum, and Rejuvenation Essence (modified so that it merely removes fatigue).

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I voted "if it isn't too much of a hassle." It wasn't in the BG1 part and I really don't want a hassle here. But if you put it in I'll do it because the mod is worth it.

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If you tell him to deal with it himself, it wouldn't be a hassle at all. You'd never have to think about it again.

 

Of course, that's if the majority says this is a good idea. With all the bad luck I had yesterday, having to version up Alternatives because of a previously-undetected bug and destroying my forum, my shedule got pushed back a day, so I'll be making a final decision Monday the 8th.

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Voted "too much realism".

 

I agree with guest:

 

It seems a little excessive. By all means have him require protection, but keep it to dialogue. The PC presumably obtains food and such somehow as well, but we don't need to see any of that in the game; it just drags things out.

 

...and speaking purely from a gameplay perspective, the less I have to run around and load new areas, the happier I'll be.

 

If having/not having an item has no appreciable difference in game, then there's no real reason to have it. Adding food might make the game more realistic for example, but without a NEED for food, it's just clutter in the pack. The same with contraception. This works in Morrowind where there are tons of atmosphere items, but this isn't Morrowind.

 

Personally, I'd rather see somebody make the BG2 Tweakpack romance cheats work in tutu to remove gender and race checks, but that's me. The sex/ flirt/ romance area for bg is quite dry for gay players.

 

With that said, I'm not making the content. If you have the passion to make this because YOU want to, then that's all that really matters. Make it to your taste, put your love into it, and then others can use it or not, as they choose.

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