Unearthed Arcana presents Scales of Balance: a post-hac tweak pack

[Connelly]

I'm not clear on something in the readme.

Component 122 (Weapon Proficiency Overhaul) says this:

Quote

Warriors gain another proficiency point every 3 levels. Rogues gain a new point every 4 levels. Druids, clerics and shamans gain a new point every 5 levels. Wizards, sorcerers, and monks can never move past their initial proficiencies (NOTE - this means no more weapon advancement at all after dual-classing into a mage!).

Meanwhile, 123 (Expanded Combat Skills System) has this:

Quote

In order to make use of all these abilities, most characters get more proficiency points to spend. Most of these are available to warriors and rogues; bards and priests can use a few, while mages and sorcerers cannot use any.

Does it mean both do the same and change the points available to classes when leveling? Or does the part in 123 just means wizards and sorcerers won't be able pick any feat proficiency after the first level, irrespective of getting their prof points cut down by 122 or not? It reads like the former to me, but that would seem a bit redundant, and the latter makes more sense in context.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Connelly

[Communist-Cleric]

I'm not sure if this is an issue with my installation or a bug with the mod so I wanted to let you know. I noticed that the melee thac0 bonus for hitting Dex 19+ is not applying when equipping the Dex gauntlets from Item Revisions (+2 DEX). My character has 18 DEX without the gauntlets and at 20 DEX with them equipped - the AC bonus applies but thac0 is unchanged. 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Communist-Cleric
added screenshot

[subtledoctor]

On 5/10/2023 at 5:04 PM, Connelly said:

Does it mean both do the same and change the points available to classes when leveling?

… that would seem a bit redundant,

Yes, that is what it means. Remember this is all completely modular and both are designed to work independently, so it’s not redundant. If used together, the prof pip advancement of comp. 123 applies (1 every 2 levels for fighters & thieves, 1 every 3 levels for paladins & rangers, etc.)

On 5/11/2023 at 3:09 PM, Communist-Cleric said:

I'm not sure if this is an issue with my installation or a bug with the mod so I wanted to let you know. I noticed that the melee thac0 bonus for hitting Dex 19+ is not applying when equipping the Dex gauntlets from Item Revisions (+2 DEX). My character has 18 DEX without the gauntlets and at 20 DEX with them equipped - the AC bonus applies but thac0 is unchanged. 

 

1) This applies every 6 seconds so you can’t pop the bracers on and check your thac0 - you have to let the game clock run a bit. 2) This affects melee thac0 only, so it won’t register in your general thac0 display, you need to look further down at the other adjustments in the Record screen. 

[zelazko]

Scales of Balance component Universal Potions removes potions class restrictions. Universal Potions should be installed before SCS component NPCs Use Potions so SCS can take advantage of any potions available for any class? Scales of Balance says it goes after SCS installation but still unsure about this thing with potions.

[Graion Dilach]

Irrelevant, last I checked SCS can't take the advantage.

[jmerry]

And it wouldn't matter anyway; non-party characters don't check whether they can use an item when their scripts tell them to use it. I've seen enemy monks with SCS use oils of speed to absolutely no effect, because the SCS potion component didn't have a class check there to avoid the combination.

The SCS potion component assigns potions and usage scripts based on internal logic which relies on the standard usability rules. In order to take any changes in those rules into account, that component would need explicit compatibility code. No such code exists at this time.

[zelazko]

Thanks guys for answers.

Scales of Balance v5.40 - I should use this version for serious gameplay and not 6x alpha versions?

[subtledoctor]

If you’re not using the new component(s) like Combat Skill Points, then it probably doesn’t matter. I would guess that v6 is actually in better shape, I should pull it out of pre-release. (There are just one or two nagging little issues, like an interaction when used with 5E Spellcasting and Dual to Kit. But I’m not totally sure how to address it and RL is keeping me away from modding in general.)

[Communist-Cleric]

On 5/13/2023 at 4:30 PM, subtledoctor said:

1) This applies every 6 seconds so you can’t pop the bracers on and check your thac0 - you have to let the game clock run a bit. 2) This affects melee thac0 only, so it won’t register in your general thac0 display, you need to look further down at the other adjustments in the Record screen. 

 

Well, that explains it. Thank you for your insight and of course all your work on these great mods!

[Endarire]

May we have a formal release of the latest master version of this code on GitHub?  This way, others will be better prepared to download the right version.

Thankee!

[NdranC]

I've been testing t&b, m&g, f&p and scales of balance together with IRR + SRR. I'm a little confused on what some of the class/proficiency descriptions say vs what I'm able to do in game. As a specific example, the thief kit assassin.

ASSASSIN: This is a killer trained in discreet and efficient murder, relying on anonymity and surprise to perform <PRO_HISHER> task.

Advantages:
– +1 bonus to hit and damage rolls.
– Backstab ability reaches x7 multiplier instead of capping at x5.
  Level 17-20: x6
  Level 21-40: x7
– May use the Poison Weapon ability. Gains one use at level 1 and an additional use every 4 levels thereafter.

Poison Weapon
Each successful hit within the next 5 rounds will inject poison into the target. Each target can only be affected once per round. The amount of poison damage depends on the character's level:

1st - Target suffers 1 poison damage per second for 6 seconds (Save vs. Death at +1 negates)
5th - Target suffers 1 poison damage per second for 12 seconds (Save vs. Death negates), and also immediately suffers 2 poison damage (no save)
9th - Target suffers 1 poison damage per second for 18 seconds (Save vs. Death at -1 negates), and also immediately suffers 4 poison damage (no save)
13th - Target suffers 1 poison damage per second for 24 seconds (Save vs. Death at -2 negates), and also immediately suffers 6 poison damage (no save)

Disadvantages:
– May only distribute 15 skill points per level among thieving skills.
BACKSTABBING:
- Certain kits can trigger special results when they land a successful backstab against a target. When an Assassin backstabs someone, the target must save vs. poison or be affected as if the Assassin used the 'Poison Weapons' kit ability.


Proficiencies:
- Receives one proficiency point in the Backstab skill for free, and may spend a total of six points advancing that skill.

This is how the description looks in my game. Despite the "Proficiencies" section mentioning that I should start with one Backstab proficiency for free it doesn't not. I'm also unable to get any skill (backstab included) past 4 points even at level 30. I also have the undocumented ability to raise shortswords and daggers to 4 points.

There is also the whole section aboutt level 17-20 and 21-40 backstabs that seems to be the vanilla description without updates.

I've tried other classes and even checked the weapprof.2da and they are correctly set to 6 but I'm still unable to get them past 4 points. I think the problem might be in profsmax.2da. Mine looks like this:

                    FIRST_LEVEL OTHER_LEVELS  2          5          9        
MAGE                	1          7          1          1          1         
FIGHTER             	1          7          2          3          4        
CLERIC              	1          7          1          2          3         
THIEF               	1          7          2          3          4         
BARD                	1          7          1          2          3         
PALADIN             	1          7          2          3          4         
FIGHTER_MAGE        	1          7          2          3          4         
FIGHTER_CLERIC      	1          7          2          3          4         
FIGHTER_THIEF       	1          7          2          3          4         
FIGHTER_MAGE_THIEF  	1          7          2          3          4         
DRUID               	1          7          1          2          3         
RANGER              	1          7          2          3          4         
MAGE_THIEF          	1          7          1          2          3         
CLERIC_MAGE         	1          7          1          2          3         
CLERIC_THIEF        	1          7          1          2          3         
FIGHTER_DRUID       	1          7          2          3          4         
FIGHTER_MAGE_CLERIC 	1          7          2          3          4         
CLERIC_RANGER       	1          7          2          3          4         
SORCERER            	1          7          1          1          1         
MONK                	1          7          1          2          3         
SHAMAN              	1          7          1          2          3         

Adding an extra level 10 with 7s on everything fixed the issue for me.

There is also the question over all of having proficiencies reaching higher levels than 5. I use LeUI and it only expects to render the pips up to 5. I can still add 6 or 7 total but the extra are invisible. Maybe this works correctly in the default UI but I wonder if it's that necessary.

I've also noticed there is an issue displaying all proficiencies in the character record. I'm not sure if this is an issue of LeUI but this character has 5 points in misc skills but it doesn't show in this list.

[GawainBS]

@subtledoctor Would you happen to know by heart whether your mods are compatible with "Classic BG UI"? (This one: https://github.com/dive-bomber/Classic-BG-UI/releases)

If I had to choose, I'd choose your mods over any UI mod, though.

[subtledoctor]

On 6/4/2023 at 2:27 AM, NdranC said:

tried other classes and even checked the weapprof.2da and they are correctly set to 6 but I'm still unable to get them past 4 points. I think the problem might be in profsmax.2da.

Adding an extra level 10 with 7s on everything fixed the issue for me.

Great catch. 

See, things like this are why I have hesitated to mark this mod as a proper final release.

[NdranC]

54 minutes ago, subtledoctor said:

See, things like this are why I have hesitated to mark this mod as a proper final release.

I think I found another bug. The mod gives mages the ability to put pips in clubs/maces but neither of them are actually usable by mages.

Speaking of which, for the proficiency component you talk about being compatible with the first component of tweaks anthology's alter weapon proficiency system which according to the readme does this

    Wakizashis move from Wakizashi/Scimitar/Ninja-to to Katana proficiency
    Ninja-tos move from Wakizashi/Scimitar/Ninja-to to Short Sword proficiency
    Morningstars move from Flail/Morningstar to Mace proficiency

I guess it technically works but the proficiency descriptions, names and weapon tooltips are all over the place. The reason why i mention it it's because IRR basically does the same thing  with it's weapon proficiencies as this component and unfortunately I can't avoid installing the changes to proficiencies without installing the rest of the weapon revisions. Since you seem to play with IR I was wondering if you could make it work nicer. I was also thinking of asking @Bartimaeus if it would be easy to split the weapon revisions component into weapon changes and proficiency changes at least on IRR.

[GawainBS]

Just a suggestion: it would be nice if, after the stats bonus overhaul and spell binus from that,  the charactercreationscreen would show the bonus spells you got. 

Note sure in which thread it belongs, but it would be nice if kits/classes show which stat they use for bonus spells. Do revised bards use INT, for example.

Edit: I was stupid and didn't scroll down...

Edited June 8, 2023 by GawainBS